纽约时报:以色列在加沙自作自受
本帖最后由 luyi99 于 2009-1-10 10:47 编辑【原文标题】The Gaza Boomerang
【中文标题】以色列在加沙自作自受
【登载媒体】纽约时报
【来源地址】http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/0 ... of.html?ref=opinion
【编译】rlsrls08
Op-Ed Columnist
The Gaza Boomerang
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Published: January 7, 2009
At a time when Israel is bombing Gaza to try to smash Hamas, it’s worth remembering that Israel itself helped nurture Hamas.
When Hamas was founded in 1987, Israel was mostly concerned with Yasser Arafat’s Fatah movement and figured that a religious Palestinian organization would help undermine Fatah. Israel calculated that all those Muslim fundamentalists would spend their time praying in the mosques, so it cracked down on Fatah and allowed Hamas to rise as a counterforce.
What we’re seeing in the Middle East is the Boomerang Syndrome. Arab terrorism built support for right-wing Israeli politicians, who took harsh actions against Palestinians, who responded with more terrorism, and so on. Extremists on each side sustain the other, and the excessive Israeli ground assault in Gaza is likely to create more terrorists in the long run.
If this pattern continues, we may eventually see Hamas-style Palestinians facing off against hard-line Israelis, with each side making the others’ lives wretched — and political moderates in the Middle East politically eviscerated.
I visited Gaza last summer and found many Palestinians ambivalent in a way that Americans and Israelis often don’t appreciate. Many Gazans scorn Fatah as corrupt and incompetent, and they dislike Hamas’s overzealousness and repression. But when they are suffering and humiliated, they find it emotionally satisfying to see Hamas fighting back.
Granted, Israel was profoundly provoked in this case. Israel sought an extension of its cease-fire with Hamas, and Egypt offered to mediate one — but Hamas refused. When it is shelled by its neighbor, Israel has to do something.
But Israel’s right to do something doesn’t mean it has the right to do anything. Since the shelling from Gaza started in 2001, 20 Israeli civilians have been killed by rockets or mortars, according to a tabulation by Israeli human rights groups. That doesn’t justify an all-out ground invasion that has killed more than 660 people (it’s difficult to know how many are militants and how many are civilians).
So what could Israel have reasonably done? Bombing the tunnels through which Gazans smuggle weapons would have been a proportionate response, if Israel had stopped there, and the same is true of airstrikes on certain Hamas targets. An even better approach would have been to ease the siege in Gaza, perhaps creating an environment in which Hamas would have extended the cease-fire. It was certainly worth trying — and almost anything would be better than lashing out in a way that would create more boomerangs.
“This policy is not strengthening Israel,” notes Sari Bashi, the executive director of Gisha, an Israeli human rights group that works on Gaza issues. “The trauma that 1.5 million people have been undergoing in Gaza is going to have long-term effects for our ability to live together.
“My colleague in Gaza works for an Israeli organization. She’s learning Hebrew, and she’s just the kind of person we can build a future with. And her 6-year-old nephew, every time a bomb drops from the air, is at first scared and then says — hopefully — maybe the Qassam Brigades will now fire rockets at the Israelis.”
Israel’s strategy has been to make ordinary Palestinians suffer in hopes of creating ill will toward Hamas. That’s why, beginning in 2007, Israel cut back fuel shipments for Gaza utilities — and why today, in the aftermath of the bombings, 800,000 Gaza residents lack running water, Ms. Bashi said.
“The Israeli policy on Gaza has been marketed as a policy against Hamas, but in reality it’s a policy against a million-and-a-half people in Gaza,” she said.
We all know that the most plausible solution to the Middle East mess is a two-state solution along the lines that former President Bill Clinton has proposed. It’s difficult to tell how we get there from here, but a crucial step is to strengthen President Mahmoud Abbas and his Palestinian Authority.
Instead, initial reports are that the assault on Gaza is focusing Arab anger on Mr. Abbas and moderate neighbors like Jordan, undermining the peacemakers.
My courageous Times colleague in Gaza, Taghreed el-Khodary, quoted a 37-year-old father weeping over the corpse of his 11-year-old daughter: “From now on, I am Hamas. I choose resistance.”
Barack Obama has said relatively little about Gaza. At first, given the provocations by Hamas, that was understandable. But as the ground invasion costs more lives, he needs to join European leaders in calling for a new cease-fire on all sides — and after he assumes the presidency, he must provide real leadership that the world craves.
Aaron David Miller, a longtime Middle East peace negotiator for the United States, suggests in his excellent new book, “The Much Too Promised Land,” that presidents should offer Israel “love, but tough love.”
So, Mr. Obama, find your voice. Fall in tough love with Israel.
以色列在加沙自作自受
此时以色列正轰炸加沙，试图粉碎哈马斯，但别忘了，以色列自己也培育了哈马斯。
当哈马斯成立于1987年，以色列主要担心阿拉法特的法塔赫运动，以为一个巴勒斯坦宗教组织将有助于破坏法塔赫。以色列估计所有的穆斯林原教旨主义者全部时间都在清寺祈祷而已，所以以色列打击法塔赫，放任哈马斯成长作为反作用力。
我们现在在中东看到的是自作自受综合症。阿拉伯恐怖主义建立了对以色列右翼政客的支持，右翼政客采取了严厉的行动打击巴勒斯坦人，而巴勒斯坦人回以更多的恐怖主义，等等。一方的极端分子支撑了另一方，从长远来看，以色列在加沙过度的的地面攻击很可能会创造更多的恐怖分子。
如果这种模式继续下去，我们最终可能看到哈马斯风格的巴勒斯坦人对抗强硬路线的以色列人，每一方都使得对方生活悲惨，而中东的政治温和派销声匿迹 。
去年夏天我访问了加沙地带，发现许多巴勒斯坦人非常矛盾，而美国人和以色列人常常不理解这种矛盾。许多加沙人鄙视法塔赫的腐败无能，他们不喜欢哈马斯的过激和镇压。但是，当他们遭受痛苦和羞辱时，他们很高兴看到哈马斯反击。
当然，在这种情况下，以色列被深深地激怒了。以色列要求延长与哈马斯的停火协议，埃及愿意调解 -但哈马斯拒绝了。当以色列遭到哈马司炮轰，以色列必须做一些事情。
但是，以色列有权做"一些事情"并不意味着它有权利做"任何事情"。根据以色列人权团体的统计，自从2001年哈马斯开始炮轰以色列，一共有20位以色列平民被杀害。这并不能证明以色列全面地面入侵是正当的，以方的入侵造成了超过660名巴人死亡（现在还很难知道有多少是武装人员，有多少人是平民） 。
那以色列能合理地做些什么呢？轰炸加沙走私武器的隧道将是一个适度的反应，如果以色列能到此为止，空袭哈马斯的某些目标也没有错。一个更好的办法是减轻加沙地带的围困，也许创造一种可以使得哈马斯同意延长停火的环境。这当然值得试一试--不管怎样都比将产生更多坏结果的动武强。
“这并不能使以色列更强大。”GISHA执行主任Sari Bashi说。GISHA是一个着重加沙问题的以色列人权组织。 “加沙150万人一直以来承受的创伤将对共存的忍耐有长远的影响。"
“我的同事在加沙地带的以色列机构工作。她在学习希伯来语，她是那种能够与之创建未来的一个人。每次炸弹从空中掉下，她和6岁的侄子，一开始感到害怕，然后说-希望是-也许是哈马斯在向以色列发射火箭弹。 ”
以色列的战略已经使得普通巴勒斯坦人不再那么敌视哈马斯。这就是为什么，从2007年开始，以色列减少对加沙地带运送公共事业设备用的燃料，也就是为什么现在以色列空袭加沙之后，80万加沙居民缺乏自来水，Bashi女士说。
“以色列对加沙地带的政策对外宣称针对哈马斯，但实际上这是一个针对加沙150万居民的政策。 ”她说。
我们都知道，最合理的解决方法是两国并存，大致跟美国前总统克林顿提议的一样。很难说我们如何能达到该目标，但关键的一步是要加强阿巴斯总统和他的巴勒斯坦民族权力机构。
相反，初步报告表明，对加沙的攻击激起了阿拉伯人对阿巴斯先生和温和的邻国比如约旦的愤怒，破坏了和平。
正在加沙的，勇敢的纽约时报同事Taghreed el-Khodary 引述一名在11岁的女儿尸体边哭泣的37岁的父亲的话说： “从现在起，我是哈马斯。我选择反抗。”
奥巴马很少就加沙的形势发表看法。首先，鉴于哈马斯的挑衅，这是可以理解的。但是，随着地面入侵，更多的生命丧失，他需要跟欧洲领导人一起呼吁一个新的停火协议-在他上任后，他必须提供如世界渴望的，真正的领导才能。
亚伦大卫米勒长期任美国在中东地区的和平谈判人员，在他的新书“太乐土(The Much Too Promised Land)”上写道总统应给予以色列"“爱，但强硬的爱。 ”
因此，奥巴马先生，找到您的声音。给予以色列强硬的爱。 这篇文章引发了众多读者留言(迄今为止441条)
等会儿摘译 谢谢楼主，期待中
许多加沙人鄙视法塔赫的腐败无能，他们不喜欢哈马斯的过激和镇压。但是，当他们遭受痛苦和羞辱时，他们很高兴看到哈马斯反击。以色列的战略已经使得普通巴勒斯坦人不再那么敌视哈马斯
rlsrls08 发表于 2009-1-9 08:43 http://bbs.m4.cn/images/common/back.gif
如果以色列意识不到这个问题，那么那个地区永远都不会有和平的一天。。。。。 这篇文章引发了众多读者留言(迄今为止441条)
等会儿摘译
rlsrls08 发表于 2009-1-9 08:52 http://bbs.m4.cn/images/common/back.gif
期待楼主的下文～～o060) o060) 去年夏天我访问了加沙地带，发现许多巴勒斯坦人非常矛盾，而美国人和以色列人常常不理解这种矛盾。许多加沙人鄙视法塔赫的腐败无能，他们不喜欢哈马斯的过激和镇压。但是，当他们遭受痛苦和羞辱时，他们很高兴看到哈马斯反击。
为什么我很理解这种心理矛盾？ 本帖最后由 luyi99 于 2009-1-15 06:56 编辑
读者支持率最高的10条留言
Israel continually forgets the most important lesson of their own history - and that of other conflicts:
Violence begets violence.
Eachchild bombed out of their own pitiful refugee home has a burning needfor revenge. Each child who watches his parents and siblings beingcarried out of rubble in bits and pieces swears to spend their livesseeking revenge.
The Palestinians are a people Israel keepstrying to conquer, they are a people who Israel consistently views asan irritant who dare to want to keep their homeland.
No peoplecan be expected to meekly step aside as their lands, homes, employmentand families are taken from them. 99.99% of us would fight offinvaders. That's human nature. Why does Israel always expect thePalestinians not to fight for the return of their lives and homes?— Katy, NYC
Recommended by 574 Readers
以色列持续地忘记他们自身历史中和其他冲突的最重要的教训:
暴力招致暴力。
每个从他们可怜的难民营中被炸弹轰出来的孩子，都有报复的怒火。每个看到他们的父母和兄弟姐妹被炸成碎片从废墟中拖出来的孩子，都发誓要充其一生报仇雪恨。
以色列一直要征服巴勒斯坦人，以色列一贯地认为巴勒斯坦人是竟敢要求保留他们家园的刺头。
当土地，家园，工作和家庭被夺去，没人会逆来顺受地走开，我们中99.99%的人会抵抗侵略者。这是人类的本性。为什么以色列总是期望巴勒斯坦人不为要回自己的生命和家园抗争?
来自纽约市的KATY
574位读者赞同以上留言
I recently retired from the US Marine Corps, but I saw service in Iraq.I do know something of military matters that are relevant to thesituation now in Gaza.
I am dismayed by the rhetoric from USpoliticians and pundits to the effect that if the US were under rocketattack from Mexico or Canada, we would respond like the Israelis. Thisa gross insult to US servicemen; I can assure you that we would NOTrespond like the Israelis. In fact, US armed forces and adjunctcivilians are under attack constantly in Iraq and Afghanistan by peoplewho are much better armed, much better trained and far deadlier thanHamas (Ill ignore for now that the politicians seem to be oblivious tothis fact). Israel has indeed taken a small number of casualties fromHamas rocket fire (about 20 killed since 2001), but we have takenthousands of casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan, including manycivilian personnel. Hundreds of American casualties have occurred dueto indirect fire, often from mortars. This is particularly true in ornear the Green Zone in Baghdad. This fire often originates from denselypopulated urban areas.
Americans do not, I repeat DO NOT,respond to that fire indiscriminately. When I say indiscriminately, Imean that even if we can precisely identify the source of the fire(which can be very difficult), we do not respond if we know we willcause civilian casualties. We always evaluate the threat to civiliansbefore responding, and in an urban area the threat to civilians isextremely high. If US servicemen violate those rules of engagement andharm civilians, I assure you we do our best to investigate -- and meteout punishment if warranted. There are differing opinions on theconflict in Iraq, but I am proud of the conduct of our servicemen there.
Withthat in mind, I find the conduct of the Israeli army in Gaza to bebrutal and dishonorable, and it is insulting that they and others claimthat the US military would behave in the same way. I know the Israelisare operating under difficult circumstances, but their claim that theyfollow similar rules of engagement rings hollow; I see little evidencefor this claim given the huge number of civilian casualties they havecaused from indirect fire.
In particular, I am stunned at theIsraeli explanation for the 30+ civilians killed at the UN school. TheIsraelis say they were responding to mortar fire from the school.Mortars are insidious because their high trajectory and lack of primaryflash make it very difficult to trace the source of the fire; you haveto have a spotter locate the crew. The Israelis claim that they tracedthe source of the fire precisely to the school; if so, they must havedirectly spotted the crew. Thus it is inconceivable that the Israelisdid not know that the target was a crowded UN school, yet they chose tofire on the school anyhow. I say without hesitation that this is acriminal act. If the Israelis had said, sorry, it was an accident,that could indicate a targeting problem, confusion, or inferiortraining. But to openly admit that they responded reflexively to theHamas fire without consideration for the inevitable civilian casualtiesis beyond the pale. The Israelis blame Hamas for firing from the school(although UN personnel on the ground dispute this), but choosing tofire directly at civilians is far worse; it is tantamount to murder. USservicemen do not behave that way in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we facemuch deadlier adversaries (Hamas mortar crews are apparently not veryeffective: I believe that all but one of the total Israeli combatfatalities have been from friendly fire). In the rare and unfortunatecases where US personnel have willingly targeted civilians, they havebeen court-martialed and punished.
The Israeli approach in Gazastrikes me as uncontrolled and vengeful. My objective analysis is thatit has little tactical effectiveness; my opinion is that its main goalis to whip the entire Gaza population into submission. This isdisturbingly similar to the Israelis conduct in Lebanon in 2006, so Ifeel obliged to say that the Israeli military displays a concertedpattern of disregard for civilian lives. I am not a politician, but inmy opinion the US should take some sort of political action in thisregard. If we continue to formally condone Israels dishonorable andbrutal military conduct in Gaza, I fear there will eventually be direconsequences for our country.
— JDS, North Carolina
Recommended by 519 Readers
我最近刚从美国的海军陆战队退休，但我看到美军在伊拉克的服役，知道一些跟现在加沙形势有关的军事方面的情况。
(太长了，抱歉我不全部翻译了。大意是在伊拉克的美军不会因为遭到一点袭击就不计后果的反击，不管不顾伊拉克平民的死活，而是尽可能小心的避免误伤。以色列
军队在加沙的行动野蛮和不名誉。连累带坏了美军的名誉。等等....)
(以下是最后一段)
我认为以色列在加沙的做法属于失控和报复。我客观的分析是，它几乎没有战术效力;它的主要目标是迫使整个加沙地带人口屈服。这跟以色列人2006年在黎巴嫩的行动类似，所以我不得不说，以色列军队显示着一致的无视平民生命的格局。我不是政治家，但我认为美国应该在这方面采取某种形式的政治行动。如果我们继续正式纵容以色列的不光彩的和残酷的军事行为，我担心最终我们的国家将有可怕的后果。
-JDS，北卡罗来纳州
519位读者赞同以上留言
Even thoughtful journalists such as yourself Mr Kristof, seemscompelled to be apologists for Israel, as in: Israel was provoked.Really !? Gaza had been under brutal occupation for decades; its peoplevoted in Hamas in fair and free elections; and since then Gaza has beenblockaded -- air, land, sea -- and has become an open air prison. Ifyou were a resident of Gaza, wouldn't you say that you'd been provokedby Israel ?
— kelvinco, Boulder, CO
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甚至深思熟虑的记者如克里什托夫先生自己，都不得不为以色列辩护，如：以色列被激怒了。真的么！？几十年来加沙地带一直在野蛮占领下，其人民在公平和自由的选举中投票给哈马斯，从那以后加沙被封锁以来 --空中，陆上，海上--它已成为一个露天监狱。 如果你是加沙地带的居民，你会不会说，你被以色列激怒？
- kelvinco , Boulder,科罗拉多州
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During the Cuban Missile Crisis, the United States established ablockade around Cuba. The intent was to prevent Russian missiles fromgetting to Cuba. America had very good reasons to dislike havingnuclear armed weapons just minutes away from our population centers.
Butsuppose the United States had extended the blockade to prevent anyfood, medicine, electricity or fuel from entering Cuba. Suppose wecontrolled and limited any humanitarian aid that could get in. Imaginethat no Cuban sugar or cigars were allowed to be exported and noequipment or supplies were allowed to be imported. Then imagine theblockade was also extended to prevent any people from entering orleaving Cuba without U.S. government approval. Finally, imagine thatthe United States government refused to allow any internationalobservers to enter Cuba to report first hand on what might have beenperpetrated on the Cuban people.
Now, do you think that after 45years of this blockade, the Cuban people wouldn't be justified in doingwhatever they could to fight this oppression? If they could build arocket that could reach Miami, do you think they wouldn't use it? Doyou really think such actions would be totally unjustified?
Manypeople thought that Cuba was a rogue state. Do you think the UnitedStates would have been justified in treating Cuba in the same way thatIsrael has been treating the Palestinians? The Israelis have beenkeeping up these pressures on the Palestinians for sixty years. Achange is needed, but it is the Israelis who need to change.
— Steve, Japan
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在古巴导弹危机时期，为了防止俄罗斯的导弹进入古巴，美国对古巴周边进行封锁。美国有很好的理由不愿意在离人口中心几分钟的地方看到核武器。
不过，假设美国扩大了封锁，以防止任何食品，医药，电力或燃料进入古巴。假如我们控制和限制任何人道主义援助进入，试想古巴糖或雪茄不被允许出口，设备或用品也不被允许进口。然后想象封锁扩大到假如没有美国政府的批准，任何人都不能进入或离开古巴。最后想象美国政府拒绝让国际观察员进入古巴，报告古巴人民的第一手资料。
现在，你是否认为这45年后的封锁之后，古巴人民是不是有道理做任何事情来消除这一压迫？如果他们能够制造射到迈阿密的火箭，你们认为他们不会使用它？你们真的认为这样的行动完全没有道理么？
很多人都认为古巴是一个无赖国家。你是否认为如果美国用以色列对待巴勒斯坦的方式对待古巴，美国就是合理的？以色列人已经对巴勒斯坦人施压了60年。一定要改变了，但需要改变的是以色列人。
-Steve，日本
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There's a differencebetween ending the violence and securing peace. Israel can use force tooverwhelm Hamas and punish Palestinians, and Israel may secure an endto the violence of rockets being fired into Israel. But ending theviolence will not bring about peace for Israel or for Palestinians. IfIsrael wants to actually have peace, it simply needs to recognize thatHamas is leading the Palestinian drive for an independent state.Palestinians have every right to want a state, just as Israeli Jewshave the right to a state. By acknowledging the Palestinian right to astate, Israel takes the first step to peace. The next step involveswithdrawing all settlers back to the pre-1967 borders and turningJerusalem into an international capital. All international law sees theIsraeli settlements as illegal. The way to peace is easy.
— bram, NYC
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结束暴力和实现和平是有区别的。以色列可以使用武力压倒哈马斯和惩罚巴勒斯坦人，也可能确实终止发射到以色列境内的火箭。但是，结束暴力将不会给以色列和巴勒斯坦人带来和平。如果以色列想要真正的和平，它只是需要认识到，哈马斯领导的巴勒斯坦正在建立一个独立的国家。巴勒斯坦人完全有权利要一个国家，就像以色列的犹太人有权一样。作为一个国家承认巴勒斯坦的权利，是以色列走向和平的第一步。下一步把所有定居者撤回到1967年以前的边界，把耶路撒冷变成一个国际首府。所有国际法认为，以色列定居点是非法的。通往和平的道路很简单
-bram ，纽约
323位读者赞同以上留言
I don't see how anyone can honesty look at the Israeli government'sinvasion of Gaza and call it anything else than state-supportedterrorism Dead civilians, bombed schools, and other terrible sufferingall form the very definition of terror. The only real differences thatI can see between the attackers in Gaza and those in Mumbai (or anyHamas attack, for that matter) are that the Israeli military kills farmore civilians and they kill far more children.
Blind supportfor the Israeli government and the terror it is producing in Gaza isnot only immoral but will also prove harmful to both the American andthe Israeli people. The furor with which Israel has specificallyattacked civilians in Gaza will create even more support for Hamas andits reactionary fundamentalist beliefs.
It is ironic that theUnited States government has overthrown many other governments for farless that what Israel has done, and yet now it supplies the weapons forthe killing. Our leaders have a biased notion of what it means to be arogue nation.— Randy, Alaska
Recommended by 287 Readers
任何人看到以色列政府对加沙的入侵，都会称之为国家支持的恐怖主义。平民死亡，学校被炸，和其他可怕的苦难，符合恐怖主义所有形式的定义。加沙和印度孟买的攻击者之间唯一真正的分歧，是以色列军队杀死更多平民和杀死更多的儿童。
盲目支持以色列政府和它在加沙实施的恐怖不仅是不道德的，而且也有害于美国和以色列人民的利益。以色列在加沙专门攻击平民将使得人们更加支持哈马斯和其反动的原教旨主义。
具有讽刺意味的是美国政府推翻了许多其他国家政府，而这些政府做的比以色列少得多得多，而且美国在提供杀人的武器。我们的领导人对流氓国家的概念有偏差。
-兰迪，阿拉斯加
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The article in the NYT's today by Ethan Bronner about how Gaza hasgiven Israel's defence minister Barack a political lift is outrightchilling given what is transpiring. I mean they shelled a UN school andkilled innocent children and civilians. There is grotesque destructiongoing on in a highly populated urban ghetto and the NYT writes aboutLabor getting a political rise in the polls because of it.
Thereporting of this story is pathetic, Mumbai got more press during it'ssiege. It reminds me of Burma when during the recent disaster the presswere not allowed in nor were relieve aid workers. The story in thepress simply moved on. This is now taking place in Gaza, Israel blocksmedia access and so the story and ridiculous ground offensive move on.Israel now has a green light to kill both Hamas and civilians. If fortyIsraeli's were killed at a school yesterday it would be viewed asheinous, apparently Palestinian lives come cheap as has been the casefor decades. Israel is conducting a Warsaw Ghetto mentality in Gaza andhas for a long time, it is time we all woke up and called a spade aspade here !
Today's Kristof piece is soft, Freidman's yesterdaywas downright absent given the ridiculous toll on Gaza and it'scivilians, bordering on numbingly insincere by a hardened journalist. Alife is a life and people are losing them. Is a ratio of 460 lives to 5justifiable ?
At the end of the day by way of the U.S. silenceand minimalist action they are green lighting murder and targetedkilling. Obama by failing to take verbal action in light of Bush 2'sregular inaction only highlights that he is not the measure of a man hesold himself to be. This situation was planned well in advance and waseasily avoidable and may I add stopable.— Sean, Vancouver
Recommended by 278 Readers
Any sympathy for Israel has now disappeared completely.
— Keith Tunstall, UK
Recommended by 257 Readers
对以色列的同情心现在都已消失贻尽
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I take exception to your statement that Israel was provoked. It is the Gazan who live in an open air prison and have been blockaded from airl and and sea ever since they exercised their democratic rights and voted in a government led by Hamas. Let's call a spade a spade.— Arif, Karachi Pakistan
Recommended by 214 Readers
我不同意你说的"以色列被激怒"。自从他们行使自己的民主权利，投票给由哈马斯领导的政府之后，加沙人生活在一个露天监狱里，并且从空中到海上被封锁起来。让我们直言不讳。
-阿里夫，巴基斯坦卡拉奇
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Those of us who grew up in Middle East and begrudgingly admired Israelfor many reasons including a political system where there is a rotationof leadership, where today's prime minister is tomorrow's oppositionfigure; where you do not have to live 40 years before you see a changeof leadership due to natural or unnatural causes; those of us who feltas the Arab adage says: "A rational enemy is better than an irrationalfriend" and secretly hoped to have the Israeli system rub off on oursand to bury the hatchet one day. We are unimpressed today with Israeland its' leaders and enablers including NY Times, Kristof, Friedman andothers.
They are as short-sighted as the traders of Wall Streetwhere they thought the party will never end. In Israel, we see arotation of jokers with smart weapons supplied by not so smart suckersand used against a largely defenseless and dejected population.
"ArabTerrorism" - Kristof dispenses easily with the word "Arab", be itterrorism, or militia or Janjaweed, etc. - did not occur in a vacuum.Gaza residents did not have a choice to go to the ball game, or firesome rockets at Israel. But you can be assured, more and more of Gazaresident and beyond, will be eager to do everything in their power toavenge the deaths of their relatives and brethren.
What goes around, comes around.
— M. Kraishan, Ashburn, VA
Recommended by 197 Readers 去年夏天我访问了加沙地带，发现许多巴勒斯坦人非常矛盾，而美国人和以色列人常常不理解这种矛盾。许多加沙人鄙视法塔赫的腐败无能，他们不喜欢哈马斯的过激和镇压。但是，当他们遭受痛苦和羞辱时，他们很高兴看到哈 ...
清禾上 发表于 2009-1-9 11:16 http://bbs.m4.cn/images/common/back.gif
想想加沙人生存状态再想想中国人的~
一个国家可怕的不是有黑暗的地方,可怕的是整个国家看不到一点光明和希望~
以色列持续地忘记他们自身历史中和其他冲突的最重要的教训: 暴力招致暴力。
以色列一直要征服巴勒斯坦人，以色列一贯地认为巴勒斯坦人是竟敢要求保留他们家园的刺头。
当土地，家园，工作和家庭被夺去，没人会逆来顺受地走开，我们中99.99%的人会抵抗侵略者。这是人类的本性。为什么以色列总是期望巴勒斯坦人不为要回自己的生命和家园抗争?
rlsrls08 发表于 2009-1-9 11:25 http://bbs.m4.cn/images/common/back.gif
一针见血！！！
想想加沙人生存状态再想想中国人的~
一个国家可怕的不是有黑暗的地方,可怕的是整个国家看不到一点光明和希望~
sam712 发表于 2009-1-9 11:26 http://bbs.m4.cn/images/common/back.gif
好言论！！！！！Q20) Q20)Q20)Q20)Q20) 犹太人迟早会受到报应.
当另一次世界大战到来的时候
犹太人会再次受到大屠杀,而且不在有人同情他们 纽约时报:加沙自作自受
==============
看到标题，佛然想起“911” 除非做的彻底和干净
否则就是散布种子
后代会来偿债的 以色列这个国家 右翼过于强硬。问题在于 阿拉伯国家一直不能给以色列的右派 真正的打击，以至于现在以色列能够肆无忌惮的攻打加沙！
哪里有压迫，哪里就有反抗。 反抗的势力足够强大以后，压迫自然会消除。 帮楼主添加了留言翻译。 战争永远是平民的坟墓～～～
想想加沙人生存状态再想想中国人的~
一个国家可怕的不是有黑暗的地方,可怕的是整个国家看不到一点光明和希望~
sam712 发表于 2009-1-9 11:26 http://bbs.m4.cn/images/common/back.gif
赞一个～ 去年夏天我访问了加沙地带，发现许多巴勒斯坦人非常矛盾，而美国人和以色列人常常不理解这种矛盾。许多加沙人鄙视法塔赫的腐败无能，他们不喜欢哈马斯的过激和镇压。但是，当他们遭受痛苦和羞辱时，他们很高兴看到哈 ...
清禾上 发表于 2009-1-9 11:16 http://bbs.m4.cn/images/common/back.gif
有话直说
能理解，无非是出于同情——同之于情，所谓感同身受，同是天涯沦落人，便是此意。
你想说的是这个么？ 请问楼主文章可否转帖？ 请问楼主文章可否转帖？
wanjian 发表于 2009-1-10 11:12 http://bbs.m4.cn/images/common/back.gif
转载附上AC原地址就可以
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