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本帖最后由 lilyma06 于 2011-9-2 17:13 编辑
【中文标题】印度与中国比较 中国不以为意
【原文标题】India Measures Itself Against a China That Doesn’t Notice
【登载媒体】纽约时报
【来源地址】http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/business/global/india-looks-to-china-as-an-economic-model.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=china
【译 者】lilyma06
【翻译方式】人工
【声 明】本翻译供Anti-CNN使用，未经AC或译者许可，不得转载。
【译 文】
Indians acknowledge that China is ahead in infrastructure, but India's commuter rails carry millions of passengers daily.
印度人承认，中国在基础设施上面领先他们，但印度自己的的通勤火车每天也运送成千上万的乘客。
MUMBAI, India — It seems to be a national obsession in India: measuring the country’s economic development against China’s yardstick.
这似乎已经成为印度全民的一种强迫症：拿中国的标准来衡量本国的经济发展。
Neelam Sablok says that her Chinese cooking courses are popular.
Neelam Sablok说，她的中国烹饪课程很受欢迎。
At a recent panel discussion to commemorate the 20th anniversary of India’s dismantling parts of its socialist economy, a government minister told business leaders to keep their eye on the big prize: growing faster than China.
最近在纪念印度经济市场化改革20周年的一次小组讨论会上，一名部长对商界领袖们说，要专注于最终的目标：比中国发展得更快。
“That’s not impossible,” said the minister, Palaniappan Chidambaram, who oversees national security and previously was finance minister. “People are beginning to talk about outpacing China.”
曾任印度财政部长的现任内政部长帕拉尼亚潘•奇丹巴拉姆说：“这并非不可能。人们开始谈论超越中国。”
Indians, in fact, seem to talk endlessly about all things China, a neighbor with whom they have long had a prickly relationship, but which is also one of the few other economies that has had 8 percent or more annual growth in recent years.
事实上，印度似乎在无休止地谈论中国的一切。中印关系长久以来摩擦不断，但中国也是近几年年增长速度在8%以上的少数经济体之一。
Indian newspapers are filled with articles comparing the two countries. Indian executives refer to China as a template for development. Government officials cite Beijing, variously as a threat, partner or role model.
印度报纸充斥着对比这两个国家的文章。印度公司总裁将中国当作发展的范式。政府官员将北京称作威胁、伙伴或榜样。
But if keeping up with the Wangs is India’s economic motive force, the rivalry seems to be largely one-sided.
但如果说追赶中国人是印度经济的发展动力，这种竞赛似乎在很大程度上是一厢情愿。
“Indians are obsessed with China, but the Chinese are paying too little attention to India,” said Minxin Pei, an economist who was born in China and who writes a monthly column for The Indian Express, a national daily newspaper. (No Indian economists are known to have a regular column in mainland Chinese publications.)
经济学家裴敏欣出生于中国，他在《印度快报》上发布每月一期的专栏文章说：“印度对中国着迷，中国却很少关心印度。”
Most Chinese are unconcerned with how India is growing and changing, because they prefer to compare their country with the United States and Europe, said Mr. Pei, a professor at Claremont McKenna College near Los Angeles. He says he has tried to organize conferences about India in China but has struggled to find enough Chinese India experts.
在美国近洛杉矶的克莱尔蒙特麦克纳学院任教的裴敏欣教授说，多数中国人对印度如何发展和改变漠不关心，因为他们更愿意把中国和美国或欧洲作比较。他说，他曾尝试在中国组织关于印度的会议，但很难找到足够多研究印度问题的中国专家。
Liu Yi, a clothing store owner in Beijing, echoed the sentiments of a dozen Chinese people interviewed in Beijing and Shanghai, in dismissing the idea that the two countries could be compared. Yes, he said India was a “world leader” in information technology but it also had many “backward, undeveloped places.”
北京一家服装店的老板刘毅（音）说，印度的确在信息技术领域“引领世界”，但印度仍有许多 “落后和不发达的地方”。他的观点代表了数十位在北京和上海接受采访的中国人，他们都认为不应将这两个国家作比较。
“China’s economy is special,” Mr. Liu said. “If China’s development has a model, you could say it’s the U.S. or England.”
“中国的经济很特殊，”刘先生说，“如果中国发展模式有榜样的话，可以说是美国或者是英国。”
It might be only natural that the Chinese would look up the development ladder to the United States, now that it is the only nation in the world with a larger economy, rather than over their shoulders at India, which ranks ninth. And while China is India’s largest trading partner, the greatest portion of China’s exports go to the United States.
中国追寻美国而不是印度的发展轨迹再自然不过，因为美国是世界上唯一总量超过中国的经济体，而印度仅排名世界第九。尽管中国是印度最大的贸易伙伴，中国最大的出口对象国却是美国。
So for India, China represents the higher rung to strive for.
因此对于印度而言，中国是更高的奋斗目标。
Like India, China traces its civilization back thousands of years and has a population of more than 1 billion people. And China has lessons to offer because, under Deng Xiaoping in the late 1970s and early ’80s, it started the transition to a more open and competitive economy more than a decade before India. Before Deng took power, India’s economy was bigger on a per-capita basis than China’s.
中国和印度都有几千年的文明，超过10亿的人口。上世纪70年代末和80年代初在邓小平的领导下中国开始向更开放更有竞争力的经济体过度，这比印度早了10年多，正因为如此印度可以向中国学习。而在邓小平执政之前印度的人均经济基础要比中国好。
Whatever the reasons, Indians compare virtually every aspect of their nation with China. Infrastructure (China is acknowledged as being many kilometers ahead). The armed forces (China is more powerful). Universities (China has invested more in its institutions). The software industry (India is far ahead). Proficiency in the English language (India has the historical advantage, but China is catching up).
无论出于什么原因，印度几乎把本国的每个方面都拿来与中国作比较。基础设施（中国被认为比印度大大超前）。武装力量（中国更为强大）。大学（中国对学校的投资更多）。软件工业（印度比中国超前）。英语熟练度（印度具备历史优势，但中国正在迎头赶上）。
Evidence of the Indo-Sino interest disparity can be seen in the two countries’ leading newspapers. The People’s Daily, the Chinese Communist Party’s house organ, had only 24 articles mentioning India on its English-language Web site in the first seven months of this year, according to the Factiva database. By contrast, The Times of India, the country’s largest circulation English-language newspaper, had 57 articles mentioning China — in July alone.
可以从两国的主要报纸中看出印中利益差距。《人民日报》——中国共产党的喉舌机构，在今年前7个月其英语网站上只有24篇文章提到印度，对比之下，《印度时报》——印度发行量最大的英文报纸，仅在7月就有57篇文章提到中国。
There are other big gaps. Indian cities, large and small, are filled with Chinese restaurants that serve a distinctly ultraspicy, Indian version of that cuisine. But there are few Indian restaurants in Beijing or Shanghai, let alone in smaller Chinese cities.
其他一些方面也存在较大差距。印度城市无论大小，都有大量的中国餐馆，提供颇具特色的超辣印度版中国菜。但在北京和上海都很少有印度餐馆，更不用说中国的小城市了。
Students at the Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay, call China and India competitive.
孟买印度技术研究所学生称中国和印度是竞争者。
In 2009, more than 160,000 Indian tourists visited mainland China, according to the Chinese government. Barely 100,000 Chinese tourists made the reverse trek, according to India’s government.
根据中国政府数据2009年超过16万名印度游客前往中国大陆旅游，而根据印度政府数据仅仅10万中国游客来印度参观。
Prakash Jagtap, who owns a small engineering firm in the western Indian city of Pune, has been to China five times. Like many Indians, he loves Chinese food (of the Indian variant) and he sings the praises of Chinese diligence and persistence.
在印度西部城市普纳经营一家小型工程公司的普拉卡什•贾格塔普已到过中国五次。像许多印度人一样，他喜欢中国食物（印度口味的），对中国人的勤劳与恒心大加赞赏。
“They have more discipline,” he said. “Here in our country, people don’t look for the long term. Instead, they look for short term, both the management and labor. We have to change our work culture.”
他说：“他们更有纪律。在我们国家，人们不看重长远的事惰，仅仅追逐短期利益，无论管理层还是劳动者都是这样。我们必须改变我们的工作文化。”
Mr. Jagtap’s statement reflects a widely held view among Indians that China has outperformed their country in large part because the Chinese one-party system is more “disciplined” than India’s vibrant, but messy, democracy.
贾格塔普的说法反映出印度人普遍持有的一种观点，即中国人之所以在很大程度上超越了印度，是因为与印度充满活力但杂乱无章的民主制度相比，中国的一党制更“有纪律”。
In early July, The Economic Times, India’s leading financial newspaper, ran a photo slide show on its Web site titled “How China builds these, and why India never does.” The slide show is a series of photographs of large infrastructure projects in China, including the a new 26-mile-long bridge linking Qingdao and the Huangdao district across the Jiaozhou Bay on the northeastern coast.
七月初印度主要金融报《经济时报》在其网站上放了一个题为“中国如何建造这些，为何印度没建成”的照片幻灯片。这些幻灯片上是中国的一系列大型基础设施项目的照片，包括东北部海岸新建成的横跨胶州湾，连接青岛和黄岛区的26英里长的大桥。
India’s views have also been shaped by a 1962 war that ended with China seizing a chunk of the northern India state of Kashmir. The countries still have an unsettled border, and China claims a large piece of territory controlled by India.
印度的观点在1962年结束与中国的战争之后形成，当时为了争夺印度北部克什米尔一部分。两国之间仍有一个悬而未决的边界，中国称一大块领土由印度现在控制。
Raghav Bahl, an Indian media executive who has written a book about the economic rise of both countries, said Indians “nursed a severe feeling of humiliation” from the 1962 war that was compounded by China’s economic rise.
Raghav Bahl，一名印度媒体经理，曾写过一本关于两国经济崛起的书，他说1962年的战争之后中国经济崛起复合，印度人“被照料的有一种被严重羞辱的感觉”，
“There is a sense that this is one race that we could have done much better in,” said Mr. Bahl, author of “Superpower? The Amazing Race Between China’s Hare and India’s Tortoise.”
《超级大国？中国与印度龟兔赛跑的故事》作者Bahl先生说：“我们本可以在这场赛跑中做的更好。”
But he added that Indians had regained confidence recently as a result of their country’s strong economy. Many, like Mr. Chidambaram and The Economist magazine, have suggested that India could soon grow at a faster pace than China. Its economy, at $5.9 trillion, is about three and a half times as big as the Indian economy, but China’s population is much older than India’s.
但是，他补充说，近年来印度人由于自己国家强大的经济实力已经恢复信心。像奇丹巴拉姆和《经济学人》杂志等许多人认为，印度可能很快就会比中国以更快的速度增长。中国这个5.9万亿美元的经济体大概是印度经济的3.5倍，但中国人口比印度要老很多。
In China, however, India does not register as a threat, economically or otherwise.
Mr. Pei, the economist, said Chinese officials, executives and even many intellectuals did not have a nuanced understanding of India. Communist conservatives maintain that “democracy is hindering India’s development,” he said.
然而，在中国，印度并没有被视为一种威胁，无论是经济上还是其他方面。经济学家裴敏欣说，中国政府官员、企业高管，甚至许多知识分子对印度缺乏深入了解。党内保守派都认为“民主阻碍了印度的发展”，他说。
Meanwhile, Chinese liberals argue that democracy makes India more stable and its government more accountable — an impression that appears to ignore India’s frequent electoral turmoil and deep-rooted corruption.
同时，中国的自由主义者认为，民主使印度更加稳定，政府更负责任，这似乎使人们忽略了印度的频繁的选举风暴和根深蒂固的腐败。
But Indian fascination with China’s economic success is also simplistic, Mr. Pei said. While one-party rule may have helped the country build infrastructure and factories in recent decades, it was also responsible for big failures under Mao Zedong. They include the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, when millions of people starved or were killed or persecuted.
裴先生说，印度对中国经济成就的迷恋也很简单。虽然一党统治可能有助于中国近几十年来构建基础设施和工厂，也对毛泽东领导下的重大失误负责。包括大跃进和“文化大革命”，当时很多人饿死，或者被杀害或迫害。
Even now, China’s leaders are struggling to quell public outrage over a recent high-speed train disaster, for which many Chinese blame corruption and cronyism in the railways ministry.
即使是现在，中国领导人也正在平息最近的高铁灾难引起的公愤，这次事故许多中国人将其归咎于铁道部的腐败和任人唯亲。
“In both countries, the level of knowledge about the other is relatively low,” Mr. Pei said.
裴先生说：“两国之间的相互了解程度都比较低。”
But at least several people interviewed in China acknowledged an inherent competition between the countries, given their size and fast growth. Ideally, they said, it will be a healthy rivalry.
但至少有几名中国受访者承认，由于两国的经济总量和发展速度，两国间存在内在竞争。他们说，从理想化的角度看，这将形成一种良性竞争。
“Competition exists between any two nations,” said Hu Jun, a 40-year-old teacher in Shanghai. “That’s a good thing. If we compete in the areas of high-tech and energy saving, I think that will benefit everyone.”
上海的40岁教师胡军说：“任两个国家之间都存在竞争。这是一件好事。如果我们在高科技和节能等领域竞争，我认为这将有利于所有人。”
In India, Shrayank Gupta, a 21-year-old student at the prestigious Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay, echoed those sentiments: “There will definitely be a race, because we are both naturally competitive, and the world will depend on both of us.”
在孟买著名的印度理工学院一名21岁的学生Shrayan Gupta说：“肯定会有竞争，因为我们都是天生求胜心切，世界也将取决于我们两国。”
网友评论：
- Chinese infrastructure is indeed way ahead of what India has. It even outpaces US in some areas. But, India will never have the speedy infrastructure build up that is the hallmark of Chinese development. Widening a road in India could get delayed by years, if there is a little temple sitting in the path, and there are many such temples! Slums can't be bulldozed away overnight to build a theme park. News media will not be controlled to ensure "harmony". If something gets bulldozed, NGOs will be harassing the government to no end.
India has temples, mosques, gurudwaras, churches, synagogues, Pagodas and a far bigger variety of fiercely vocal and independent people, all working together and living in a vibrant symbiotic relationship (Examples: muslim farmers grow flowers and deliver them to hindu temples; Millions of Hindus partake in the Ramzan feast with their muslim friends).
I'd rather India develop at its own pace rather than learn lessons from China. I'd rather see India corruption free, and let its diverse population blossom in such an environment than get into a meaningless race to develop infrastructure.
中国的基础设施的确领先于印度，甚至在某些领域超过了美国。但是，印度将永远不会有如此快速的基础设施建设，这是中国发展的重要标志。如果在路上有一个小寺庙，在印度拓宽道路可能延迟多年，那里有很多这样的寺庙！贫民窟一晚上不能用推土机推平来建立一个主题公园。新闻媒体不会被控制以确保“和谐”。如果有人受到恐吓，非政府组织将没完没了地困扰政府。
我宁愿印度按自己的速度发展，而不是学习和借鉴中国的经验教训。我宁愿看到印度没有腐败，让在这样的环境中多样的人共同发展，而不是进入一个毫无意义的基础设施建设竞赛。
- There is no doubt that China has made tremendous progress. Yet the development has been uneven and the fruits of economic growth have been distributed unequally. Corruption and bureaucratic fiefdoms remain problematic. This is in a country that is communist in ideology. The question is when will the benefits of economic prosperity trickle down for common folks to feel the difference.
India, on the other hand, is a democracy. The process of governing and decision-making is messy. It, too, is beset with corruption at all levels. Corruption has been going on for decades. With ineffective governing, the development is more free-for-all who can grab. It has become a greedy and unequal society. Recently I learned that 60 per cent of Mumbai's population lives in slums (I have not verified it), while one man lives in a billion-dollar mansion. If you look at the traffic in Beijing and Mumbai you will see the difference,discipline versus chaos.
That is the short version of the difference between these two countries.
毫无疑问，中国已经取得了巨大进步。然而，这种发展是不平衡的，经济增长的成果分配不均的。腐败和官员仍然有问题。在中国共产主义是意识形态。现在的问题是经济繁荣的好处何时扩散到普通大众中去，让他们感受到差异。
另一方面，印度是一个民主国家。执政和决策的过程是混乱的。它也是受各级腐败的困扰。腐败已经持续了几十年。执政不力，发展是对任何人开放的。它已成为一个贪婪的和不平等的社会。最近，我了解到，孟买60％的人口占居住在贫民窟（我没有验证），而有人生活在一个数十亿美元的豪宅。如果你看一下在北京和孟买的交通，你会看到的差异，纪律与混乱。
这是这两个国家之间的差异的简单版本。
- While your article points out the similarities, there are huge differences between the two countries that are almost on the opposite scales of the spectrum. India is a chaotic land on the surface - a huge diversity in cultures, attitudes,fractions,religions, interests etc make sure that India will always be characterized as not a single nation-state since 1947 but a mosaic of peoples with a shared history and culture. This also makes sure it has an underlying stability - no single party or group can ever imagine to have a totalitarian hold on India, no single view imposed from top-down. It is a directionless elephant that lumbers, yet still for all its dsyfunctional state, it yet moves. As an Indian, I can assure you, for us the State doesn't matter, at best it is a nuisance to be avoided. Indians are a bit uncouth, and uncivil and perhaps a touch too boisterous but we are a people who are completely comfortable in our identity and largely care little about what the outside world thinks of us. Unfortunately, ours is a country where literally every man is for himself and between the corruption and nexus, sadly many weak do get trampled. Yet, the same environment accords an individual freedom much higher than our neighbors.India's growth is largely internal on domestic consumption. Our society and democracy still perhaps in the Robber Baron age of late 1800s of the west.
China,is mostly a China Inc. An awe-inspiring state which shows you how political,economic,strategic and every power can be carefully synchronized to march a country forward. The result is brilliant, yet in a state on a march, with a single authority vested with all power, there is little room for individual differences and rights. While I understand the characteristic importance of "harmony" in China, I feel that the Communist Party has become insecure - in tolerating religion, of cultures like Uigur/Tibetan.
Hopefully, the contrasting flaws in our twin States balance and heal over time.
虽然文章指出指出两国的相似指出，但在某些层面两国之间的差异十分巨大。印度是一个表面混乱的国家—— 文化多样性…..
- The modern western models of national development (democracy, communism, socialism, presidential, parliamentary, Keynes, Chicago School, etc.)) have run their course and no longer provide an effective road map to social stability and prosperity. The developed countries of the world (G8) and India will find it near impossible to change their established public institutions thus the current malaise. In this environment the developing world looks to China for useful lessons. The competition is therefore not between India and China or even between the US and Europeans versus China. The competition is for the hearts and minds of the uncommitted and poor unstable countries of the third and second worlds. China looks likely to be able to draw them into her orbit. Chinese trade infrastructures for resources is one very successful aspect of this trend.
现代西方国家发展模式(民主，共产主义，社会主义，总统制，议会制，凯恩斯，芝加哥学派等）有其自己的方向，但并不能保证社会稳定和繁荣。世界发达国家（G8）和印度会发现几乎在当前糟糕的情况下是不可能改变其建立的公共机构。在这种环境下，发展中国家从中国吸取有益的经验教训。因此，这不是印度和中国之间的竞争，而是美国和欧洲与中国之间的竞争。这项比赛是为了那些自由的和贫穷不稳定第二第三世界国家的心灵和头脑。中国似乎能够吸引到她的轨道。中国贸易基础设施的资源是这种趋势一个非常成功的方面。
- India should be rightly envious of China's growth. However, while giving China its due for lifting millions of poverty and jumping a generation ahead in a remarkable time, the challenge is yet to come. The discipline that the Indian in the article mentions, is nothing but the state dictating how things should be done. India has maintained a growth of 8% despite the lack of any infrastructure. Imagine the possibilities when those are built.. What will China do when all the roads and buildings have been built - what will its people need then?
- Soon it will be US comparing herself to China, US needs to wake up and complete again.
Way too many self interest groups in the US.
很快就该是美国自己跟中国比较了。美国该完全地醒醒了
- Isn't the point of the article that there is little comparison between the two. I think the West also likes to see India and China in the same light. India clearly has the advantage both political and demographic but it seems it also has the potential to lose them both.
文章关键不在于这两国之间的对比。我认为西方也喜欢在某些方面比较印度和中国。很明显印度有政治和人口的优势，但是也很容易就失去这些优势。
- China is developing much faster than India (and the United States) because it has strong leaders who don't have to deal with a bickering and useless Congress.
中国比印度（和美国）发展的更快，因为他们有很强的领导人，而且领导人不需要处理没完没了的议会争吵。
- I think the author of this article is overestimating the Indian "obsession" with China. Most Indians think of China as a producer of cheap goods with occassionaly envy for her glittering cities, and as an untrustworthy country in general (a legacy of the war with China in the 60s, when the Indians were singing "Indians and Chinese are brothers", while the Chinese were busy attacking us - maybe we were just naive or China was being slimy, who knows). Anyway, this can hardly be called an obsession.
About which political model is the "best" - I don't think there is one. If dictatorship works for the Chinese, hurray for them. I just know that it won't work in India (it is a different issue that democracy is not working too well either :)).
Personally, if given a choice, I would rather live in a world where India is a superpower than in a world where China is one. This may be because I'm Indian. I know that no country is saintly, but in my experience, China as a nation is known neither for fairness or benevolence, but for getting what its leaders want at any cost (even to its own people).
我认为这篇文章作者过高估计印度对中国的“迷恋”了。大多数印度人把中国当成生产便宜商品的厂商，有时会嫉妒下辉煌的城市。
哪种政治模式最好？我不认为有确切的一种。如果中国适合独裁，那万岁。我只知道这不适合印度。
- Both nations continue to grow and prosper because of the hard work and enterprise of their people, China with the help of its rulers, India largely despite them.
- 正是两国人民的辛勤努力和进取精神，两国都在继续发展繁荣。中国是靠其领导人的帮助下，而印度大部分不管领导人。
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发表于 2011-9-2 16:08
