日志
德国外长谈人权、米国侵犯欧洲人隐私和google的政治主张
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【原帖链接】http://bbs.anti-cnn.com/thread-217702-1-1.html
【闪人评论】
德国外长谈人权、米国侵犯欧洲人隐私和google的政治主张
flasher
网友warlbr在这里 http://bbs.anti-cnn.com/thread-217691-1-1.html 谈了德国外长的人权主张和德国网民对此的反应，网民原话如下：
-----
网民stefan w.：
“联邦政府支持言论自由、人权和少数民族保护，维斯特韦勒强调指出”
谢谢亲爱滴世界报大清早提供的笑料。维斯特韦勒应该问下（中国政府），是否在中国，国民的所有网络通信数据和电话通话记录会被（中国政府）保存？另与中国交换下看法，问问中国人对德国煽动国民法规允许德国法院把不受欢迎的异见分子送监多年（不久前有人被判12年）看法如何。
或问下中国，是否中国在非紧急状况下会把国民的所有汇款信息提供给他国。
我确信中国人会对此给出明确答复，古义德（外长的名，维斯特韦勒是姓）将会确定，我们（指德国和中国）之间根本没啥区别。
-----
warlbr说明道：
也许有人想说第一个留言是TG的人才所写。那这人才还真知道不少消息。
第一个留言的风格很德国化，反讽德国，德国人的口吻，
留言者必须是对德国相当了解滴，而且留言里所说的都是真的。
好像我有在AC解释过，为了反恐需要，应德国政府要求，德国所有网络IP记录、电话的通话记录会被电信部门自动存储半年，手机以及电信终端实名登记。在德国造谣（仅用于私人开玩笑的不算）是有罪的，因为实名，查起来很容易，大概是这样使德国人不乱发布流言蜚语吧。
关于提供国民汇款信息也是出于反恐考虑，德国人对此很不满的。好像是在比利时有一个这样的机构（因为欧盟总部在那），收集全世界人民的汇款信息，这些信息将提供给MD。
对warlbr提到的最后一点，“好像是在比利时有一个这样的机构（因为欧盟总部在那），收集全世界人民的汇款信息，这些信息将提供给MD”，我在此补充说明如下：
The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication ("SWIFT") 是一个由诸多银行和金融机构合作形成的金融信息交换网络。对于普通欧洲人来说，SWIFT代表一种常用的银行间转帐汇款方式。
大约在四年前，米国下令所有通过米国辖制区的国际金融汇款信息全部纳入米国政府检察监督范围，名义当然是反恐需要。这导致所有通过SWIFT转帐的信息全部落入米国政府之手，因为尽管SWIFT始建于比利时，总部也在比利时，但有一个数据中心在米国，只要数据通过米国国土，就不得不接受米国政府监察，问题在于网络数据是相通的，米国数据中心和比利时数据中心互为备份，因此使得整个SWIFT数据库被迫向米国政府敞开大门，尽管大量转帐是在欧洲银行机构间进行，根本不通过米国，跟米国也没有关系。这引起了欧洲很多人对个人隐私遭米国政府窥探的担心，有些维权组织对此表示了不满，但总的来说还是无可奈何。
前不久，欧盟部长们同意延长米国政府对SWIFT的这种完全监察权。理由当然还是帮助米国反恐。
与此同时，欧洲和米国都在公开支持和资助对中国进行恐怖活动的组织和个人，并将他们冠以“人权自由活动家”的美名，甚至于授予“和平奖”、“民主奖”等。前不久，米国google公司也高调以“人权”名义，以藏独、台独、轮子等“人权斗士”的gmail信箱遭到来自中国的骇客袭击为由，宣布如果中国政府不答应它的要求，就撤出中国。此事引起中国众多g粉的愤慨，纷纷表示对google政治主张的支持，谴责中国政府不对google及时让步的作法。
参考1：
Ministers approve extension of SWIFT transaction sharing with US
http://www.out-law.com/page-10220
OUT-LAW News, 30/07/2009
Ministers from the 27 European Union member states have backed plans to continue to allow US authorities to inspect the details of Europeans' bank transfers. They want the US to have access even to transfers that do not reach the US.
The Brussels-based Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT) manages international payments between banks. It hit the headlines in 2006 when it was discovered that transfer details were being monitored by US authorities.
The organisation owned a 'mirror' server in the US which duplicated all the activity logged on its European machine. That server was being monitored by US authorities in a way which EU data protection commissioners said was unlawful.
SWIFT's customers are the major banks, and it has told OUT-LAW.COM that it allowed the authorities in the US to access its data because it felt bound by a subpoena in a country in which it operated.
Independent EU privacy advisory body the Article 29 Working Party said that the actions broke EU privacy law.
"As far as the communication of personal data to the US Treasury is concerned, the Working Party is of the opinion that the hidden, systematic, massive and long-term transfer of personal data by SWIFT to the US Treasury in a confidential, non-transparent and systematic manner for years without effective legal grounds and without the possibility of independent control by public data protection supervisory authorities constitutes a violation of the fundamental European principles as regards data protection and is not in accordance with Belgian and European law," it said in 2007.
The Belgian and Swiss data protection authorities said that the activity also broke their laws.
At a meeting of the EU's Council of Ministers, ministers from all 27 member states agreed that the US should continue to have access to banking data.
"The Council approved guidelines for negotiations with the United States for an international agreement to make financial payment messaging data available to the US Treasury Department in order to prevent terrorism and terrorist financing," said a statement from the Council.
Under an interim deal the US has access to the information that passes through the US server but The European Commission's Justice and Home Affairs Commissioner Jacques Barrot told a press conference this week that he wants to extend those rights to databases held in the EU.
"It would be extremely dangerous at this stage to stop the surveillance and the monitoring of information flows," Barrot said, according to news service Associated Press (AP). He said that any deal that gave access to EU-only transactions would also increase privacy protections.
SWIFT plans to open a new data centre later this year in Switzerland that would only deal with EU transactions, and negotiations will centre on what access US authorities can have to this database.
参考2：谷歌冲击波：中国在美企业面临严审
http://bbs.anti-cnn.com/thread-217702-1-1.html
【闪人评论】
德国外长谈人权、米国侵犯欧洲人隐私和google的政治主张
flasher
网友warlbr在这里 http://bbs.anti-cnn.com/thread-217691-1-1.html 谈了德国外长的人权主张和德国网民对此的反应，网民原话如下：
-----
网民stefan w.：
“联邦政府支持言论自由、人权和少数民族保护，维斯特韦勒强调指出”
谢谢亲爱滴世界报大清早提供的笑料。维斯特韦勒应该问下（中国政府），是否在中国，国民的所有网络通信数据和电话通话记录会被（中国政府）保存？另与中国交换下看法，问问中国人对德国煽动国民法规允许德国法院把不受欢迎的异见分子送监多年（不久前有人被判12年）看法如何。
或问下中国，是否中国在非紧急状况下会把国民的所有汇款信息提供给他国。
我确信中国人会对此给出明确答复，古义德（外长的名，维斯特韦勒是姓）将会确定，我们（指德国和中国）之间根本没啥区别。
-----
warlbr说明道：
也许有人想说第一个留言是TG的人才所写。那这人才还真知道不少消息。
第一个留言的风格很德国化，反讽德国，德国人的口吻，
留言者必须是对德国相当了解滴，而且留言里所说的都是真的。
好像我有在AC解释过，为了反恐需要，应德国政府要求，德国所有网络IP记录、电话的通话记录会被电信部门自动存储半年，手机以及电信终端实名登记。在德国造谣（仅用于私人开玩笑的不算）是有罪的，因为实名，查起来很容易，大概是这样使德国人不乱发布流言蜚语吧。
关于提供国民汇款信息也是出于反恐考虑，德国人对此很不满的。好像是在比利时有一个这样的机构（因为欧盟总部在那），收集全世界人民的汇款信息，这些信息将提供给MD。
对warlbr提到的最后一点，“好像是在比利时有一个这样的机构（因为欧盟总部在那），收集全世界人民的汇款信息，这些信息将提供给MD”，我在此补充说明如下：
The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication ("SWIFT") 是一个由诸多银行和金融机构合作形成的金融信息交换网络。对于普通欧洲人来说，SWIFT代表一种常用的银行间转帐汇款方式。
大约在四年前，米国下令所有通过米国辖制区的国际金融汇款信息全部纳入米国政府检察监督范围，名义当然是反恐需要。这导致所有通过SWIFT转帐的信息全部落入米国政府之手，因为尽管SWIFT始建于比利时，总部也在比利时，但有一个数据中心在米国，只要数据通过米国国土，就不得不接受米国政府监察，问题在于网络数据是相通的，米国数据中心和比利时数据中心互为备份，因此使得整个SWIFT数据库被迫向米国政府敞开大门，尽管大量转帐是在欧洲银行机构间进行，根本不通过米国，跟米国也没有关系。这引起了欧洲很多人对个人隐私遭米国政府窥探的担心，有些维权组织对此表示了不满，但总的来说还是无可奈何。
前不久，欧盟部长们同意延长米国政府对SWIFT的这种完全监察权。理由当然还是帮助米国反恐。
与此同时，欧洲和米国都在公开支持和资助对中国进行恐怖活动的组织和个人，并将他们冠以“人权自由活动家”的美名，甚至于授予“和平奖”、“民主奖”等。前不久，米国google公司也高调以“人权”名义，以藏独、台独、轮子等“人权斗士”的gmail信箱遭到来自中国的骇客袭击为由，宣布如果中国政府不答应它的要求，就撤出中国。此事引起中国众多g粉的愤慨，纷纷表示对google政治主张的支持，谴责中国政府不对google及时让步的作法。
参考1：
Ministers approve extension of SWIFT transaction sharing with US
http://www.out-law.com/page-10220
OUT-LAW News, 30/07/2009
Ministers from the 27 European Union member states have backed plans to continue to allow US authorities to inspect the details of Europeans' bank transfers. They want the US to have access even to transfers that do not reach the US.
The Brussels-based Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT) manages international payments between banks. It hit the headlines in 2006 when it was discovered that transfer details were being monitored by US authorities.
The organisation owned a 'mirror' server in the US which duplicated all the activity logged on its European machine. That server was being monitored by US authorities in a way which EU data protection commissioners said was unlawful.
SWIFT's customers are the major banks, and it has told OUT-LAW.COM that it allowed the authorities in the US to access its data because it felt bound by a subpoena in a country in which it operated.
Independent EU privacy advisory body the Article 29 Working Party said that the actions broke EU privacy law.
"As far as the communication of personal data to the US Treasury is concerned, the Working Party is of the opinion that the hidden, systematic, massive and long-term transfer of personal data by SWIFT to the US Treasury in a confidential, non-transparent and systematic manner for years without effective legal grounds and without the possibility of independent control by public data protection supervisory authorities constitutes a violation of the fundamental European principles as regards data protection and is not in accordance with Belgian and European law," it said in 2007.
The Belgian and Swiss data protection authorities said that the activity also broke their laws.
At a meeting of the EU's Council of Ministers, ministers from all 27 member states agreed that the US should continue to have access to banking data.
"The Council approved guidelines for negotiations with the United States for an international agreement to make financial payment messaging data available to the US Treasury Department in order to prevent terrorism and terrorist financing," said a statement from the Council.
Under an interim deal the US has access to the information that passes through the US server but The European Commission's Justice and Home Affairs Commissioner Jacques Barrot told a press conference this week that he wants to extend those rights to databases held in the EU.
"It would be extremely dangerous at this stage to stop the surveillance and the monitoring of information flows," Barrot said, according to news service Associated Press (AP). He said that any deal that gave access to EU-only transactions would also increase privacy protections.
SWIFT plans to open a new data centre later this year in Switzerland that would only deal with EU transactions, and negotiations will centre on what access US authorities can have to this database.
参考2：谷歌冲击波：中国在美企业面临严审
http://bbs.anti-cnn.com/thread-217702-1-1.html
