------------译者：墨家墨客-审核者：chen_lt------------
Safe Harbor member
I think that I'd be filling my freezer, but after I took care of that, I'd help out
我想我会先管好自己的事情，在之后，我才会考虑向他人伸出援手。
Dao Ke Dao Fei Chang Dao
A bit ironic given her well positioned chinese friendships... but more telling that what lies beneath the surface appearances. She has a strong sympathetic side and an understanding beyond survival of one alone. My wife has told me without reservation she wants little to do with chinese for some of the same reasons.
在其各尽其能的中式友谊下，还发生这种事情，还真的是有点讽刺，但是这更多的说明了表相之下隐藏着什么真面目。她有着强烈的同情心，对生存和其他的东西也有自己的理解。我的妻子曾跟我毫无保留的探讨过这个问题，（她说）出于相同的一些原因，她也不想和其他的国人有什么瓜葛。
Mick
Li has often expressed the same sentiments, David. Over the past nine years here , she has met and befriended numerous Chinese, but she keeps them at a distance for the most part. In the small (very small) town where we live, the Chinese community consists of five people (five and a half if you count our daughter Salina as a half). Li says she has no desire to move to a city with a large Chinese community.
李也常常表露出相同的情感，在这过去的9年中，她也遇到了并且和很多国人成为了朋友，但在大多数情况下她总是和他们保持着一定距离，在我们住的这个小村庄内（真的很小很小）我们的家有五位正式成员（如果我们的小女儿也算上，那就是五个半），李说，他没有打算搬去大城市并且住在更大的一个小区里面。
-------------译者：北极燕鸥-审核者：chen_lt------------
credzba
My wife originally couldn't wait until we could return home, where things worked like she expected.
Over time though, she has come to appreciate the way things work in America too. We have Chinese friends here, and she has often said her Chinese friends in America are nicer than her Chinese friends in China. Perhaps it is the pulling together in a foreign country, or perhaps it is the changes to meet Americas different life style, I dont really know.
My point is, we enjoy our Chinese friends, and in fact have few American friends. We are happy in Austin with only a few Chinese, but we would also be happy in a city with a large Chinese population (I think).
Like all these discussions, each person is an individual.
I theorize that not wanting to associate with Chinese is part of acclimation, they want to be a part of America, but that just a theory.
A good friend of mine came to America in college, only dated Americans, married an American, ate hamburgers and pizza... lived American.
Now, she is 30+ and is very much returning to her Chinese likes and ideas. Her husband complains (teasing mostly) that he married an Americanized Chinese, but now she is changing to be more Chinese than American.
I suspect that some of our wives will follow this same progression.
我老婆起初对回到家乡急不可耐，家乡的风俗都是她所熟悉的。
随着时间推移，她逐渐开始欣赏美国的风俗。我们在这里有一些中国朋友，她常说她在美国的中国朋友要比在中国的好。
或许这是因为大家都身在异乡，也可能是为了适应美国的生活方式发生了改变，实际的原因我并不清楚。
我的观点是，我们喜欢那些中国朋友。实际上我们的美国朋友要比中国朋友少一些。我们在奥斯丁生活得挺愉快，这里华人很少。但即便是在一个华人很多的城市，我们也能生活得很高兴。至少我是这么认为的。
就像这里所讨论的，每个人都是一个个体。
我推断她们不与华人交往的原因在一定程度上是为了适应环境，她们希望成为美国社会的一份子，不过这只是推测。
我的一个好朋友在大学的时候来到美国。她只和美国人约会，最后和美国人结婚了。她吃汉堡和披萨，像美国人一样生活。
现在她已经年过三十，她的爱好和观点都在逐渐变回一个中国人。她丈夫抱怨（主要是调侃）他本来娶了一个美国化的中国人，但现在她已经更接近于一个中国人了。
我怀疑我们中间一些人的妻子今后也会出现这样的过程。
NickF
ChunMri often says things like, "Chinese people in USA don't like help other Chinese people."
ChunMri经常这么说：“在美国的华人不喜欢帮助其他华人。”
-------------译者：北极燕鸥-审核者：tvenana------------
amberjack1234
This is my wife's feelings exactely as a matter of fact she don't want any friends period. She says that eventually thay will all screw you one way or another or just want money from you. Over the last 50 years or so I have found this to be true as well. Sad to say bnut the more you do for some the more they will expect. I use to have one best friend that wound up having sex with one of my wives and my other best friend would always want to come over to my house and do stakes and seafood and when I would go to his house we would have hotdogs. When we would go out to eat I was always expected to pay the tab for he his wife and kid plus the tip at any restaurant that we went to. When I was a teenager my first cousin and he was like a brother to me I was always expected to help him repair his car and when it was time to repair my car I would have to do it my self alone. Just a few examples. I guess that I don't chose my friends very well.
Larry
这是我老婆的感受，严格地说事实上她不需要任何朋友。她说事实上他们都会用这样那样的方式压榨你，或者只是想从你那里赚钱。在过去五十年左右的时间里，我逐渐认识到这的确是事实。很不幸，你为他们做得越多，他们的期望就越高。我曾经最好的朋友居然跟我的一个妻子上床了。我其他一些至交总想来我家赌博或者吃海鲜，等我去他家的时候就只能吃到热狗。大家出去下馆子的时候，不论去什么饭馆我总是积极地帮他家人买单、付小费。我年轻的时候，我把一个堂兄弟当亲兄弟一样对待。我总是热心地帮他修理汽车，但等到我的车需要修理的时候，我就只能自己单干了。这只是几个例子。我觉得我不会和任何一个朋友太亲近了。
Doug
Me ex used to get so upset with me because she knew I liked the Chinese. She said I had no idea how they really are but would never tell me the examples. She wanted to be far away from other Chinese, but then would find a friend but shortly start to critisize.
Now in Plano, TX she is good with her few friends there. She is loosening up about her old thinking and ways............a little.
我前妻曾经对我特别烦恼，因为他知道我喜欢中国人。她说我根本不了解中国人的本质，但她又从不向我解释他们到底是怎样的。她希望和其他中国人保持距离，但是又会找一个朋友并很快开始批判他。
现在她和几个朋友在田纳西州普莱诺过得不错。她过去的想法和观念开始有了“一点点”动摇。
-------------译者：猫记-审核者：chen_lt------------
bergamot
"Like all these discussions, each person is an individual. ",there are both nice people and mean people in every country.
I guess the wives are so soaked in American water that they forget themselves are CHINESE( aren't they?) when they made those negative comments
“像所有这些讨论，每个人都是个独立的个体。”每个国家都有亲切的人和刻薄的人。
我猜这些妻子们如此好地融入美国社会，以至于在他们做出这些负面评论的时候，都忘记他们自己也是中国人（难道不是么？）。
amberjack1234
I can't speak for the rest and don't want to but my wife was that way when she got here 12 years ago and is more to that way of thinking even moreso now. I have seen several incidents where a Chinese person here in America tried to cheat her. She tells me that is the way it is with the Chinese even here in America. I was kind of astonished myself thinking that they were all brother and sisters here in a foreign land and would kind of go out of their way to help each other but it don't seem that way in a lot of cases.
Larry
我不能说其他人，也不想说，但是我的妻子在12年前来这儿的时候是这么认为的，现在更是对此深信不疑。我已经看过几次，在美国的一个中国人想骗她。她告诉我这就是跟中国人相处的方式，即便这儿是美国。我感到有点吃惊。我认为他们在国外的时候，彼此应该是对方的兄弟姐妹，应该想尽办法互相帮助，但在很多情况下，实际情况并非如此。
Yuanyang
It's by individual. But still ... what any Chinese woman says is always the absolute truth hands down, no questions asked, it's Gospel
这视乎个人，但是仍旧。。。一些中国女人说的话，总是轻而易举的视为真理，无话可问，这是福音。
-------------译者：猫记-审核者：chen_lt------------
Kyle
Concerning my wife, I can see that point-of-view
就我妻子而言，我能看到这种观点。
Zhou Zhou
I always encourage my wife to chat with other Chinese people we come across. I know that she enjoys chatting in her own tongue and comparing notes. We are always getting extra veggies at the farmers market, food at the restaurants and better prices from Chinese merchants. We are looking at homes in the city and she points out areas where she sees Asians living...interesting
我总是鼓励我的妻子去与我们遇到的其他中国人交谈。我知道她很享受用母语与人交谈及交流思想。我们总能从菜市场得到额外的蔬菜，从餐馆得到额外的食物以及从中国商人手里拿到更优惠的价格。我们正在考虑在城市里安家，她指出去亚洲人聚集的地区。。。真是有趣。
honeybun
I think there's a lot of person to person variation, as bergamot very succinctly pointed out.
In general, I could definitely see the pragmatism and corruption carrying over from China (and the desire to stay away from it, for some people), but I can also see the tendency to network carrying over, and the desire to connect with other chinese when abroad (or as they call each other "tong bao," the two characters literally meaning "same" and "womb").
正如佛手柑一样，人与人之间也存在着很多的不同通常来说，我能清楚的看到从中国带来的实用主义和腐败现象（对有些人而言，想要摆脱这些），但是我同样能看到人们想要融入原来的关系网的倾向，以及当身处国外，想要与其他中国人联系的愿望（或他们彼此称对方为“同胞”，这两个字的意思就是同根同源）。
At first, my wife didn't want to have Chinese friends because she wanted to be immersed in the mainstream US. When she had our daughter, a young couple who owned a nearby Chinese restaurant went very far out of their way to get the best traditional foods for my wife while she was speding her month inside with the baby, and we became good friends. From there my wife became more interested in connecting with other Chinese and ended up meeting and trading favors with them for things she was working on, as Chinese often do in China
首先，我妻子因为想融入美国主流社会而不想要中国朋友。当她生下我们女儿的时候，一对拥有附近一家中国餐馆的年轻夫妇在我妻子坐月子期间，走了很远的路，去为我的妻子弄最好的中国传统食物，我们彼此成为了好朋友。从那以后，我妻子变得热衷于与其他中国人联系，最终发展至与他们一起分享她生活和工作上的事情，就像中国人在中国的时候做的那样。
-------------译者：猫记-审核者：chen_lt------------
david_dawei
I think that works for those who have the desire or expectation or want to acclimate; for those who don't care about such distinctions we need theory.
Again, this to me, simply falls back to their expectation, desire or want. If one wants to immerse, they will swing to one extreme; if one wants to play the 'trading favors' game, then that is another extreme.
There is a comfortable middle ground where maybe chinese struggle to find since they are bouncing from one culture to another. They may be unsure what to expect and how to get it. I have heard too many stories about how someone will get to the US and be able to do whatever they want.. only to find out it is nothing like they expected or could get. Others could get anything because they found a chinese network.
I used to think that getting one's lady 'hooked up with chinese' was a good idea since it would ease their transition. I now see two issues with this:
1. It is imposing on them what they may not really need
2. It is not allowing them to just be who they are or what they want
My wife could are a less about distinctions of 'immersion' or 'favors'... these are things sought. She simply lives where ever she is... but she does not like games and she finds the 'trading favors' game not her cup of tea. Even in China... She relies on family since the 'return favor' is not a part of the game for them.
（回复）“我推断她们不与华人交往的原因在一定程度上是为了适应环境，她们希望成为美国社会的一份子，不过这只是推测。”
我认为那些想要或期待或想适应新环境的人才这么做；对那些不关心这种区别的人，我们需要另当别论。
（回复）“首先，我妻子因为想融入美国主流社会而不想要中国朋友。当她生下我们女儿的时候，一对拥有附近一家中国餐馆的年轻夫妇在我妻子坐月子期间，走了很远的路，去为我的妻子弄最好的中国传统食物，我们彼此成为了好朋友。从那以后，我妻子变得热衷于与其他中国人联系，最终发展至与他们一起分享她生活和工作上的事情，就像中国人在中国的时候做的那样。”
再来，这对我而言，可简单地归于他们的期望、欲望或想要的。如果一个人想要融入社会，他们将会走向一端；如果一个人想要与人分享生活和工作上的事情，那么那又是另一端了。
因为他们从一种文化进入另一种文化里，所以中国人很难找到舒适的中间立场。他们可能不确定自己期待什么又如何得到它。我听到过许多故事，有关人们如何来到美国以及如何能做任何他们想要做的事。（结果）发现（情况）一点也不像他们预期的或以为可以实现的那样。其他一些人可以得到一切，因为他们找到中国人际网络。
我过去认为让某人的妻子与中国紧密联系是个不错的主意，因为这能缓和一下他们的适应过程。我现在认为这种做法存在两个问题：
1、这对于他们来说，可能并不是他们真正想要的
2、这可能会不允许他们做好自己或成为他们想要的样子
我妻子不太在乎什么“融入社会”或“分享生活和工作上的事情”。。。这事出有因。她在她曾经呆的地方就一直过着简单的生活。。。但是她不喜欢玩把戏且她发现“互助交易”不是她的菜。即使是在中国的时候。。。因为“回报”对他们来说，不是游戏的一部分，因此，她（决定一切）依靠家庭。
-------------译者：猫记-审核者：chen_lt------------
NickF
Interestingly, since ChunMei started looking for another nanny position something unusual has emerged. She's been looking to work for a Chinese family, and in the past two weeks she's talked to three different families. The first question from each of the three has been, "Is your husband Chinese?"
When she tells them that her husband is American they don't even want to talk to her further.
Not sure why this is.
有趣的是，自从ChunMei 开始寻找另一个保姆职位，一些不同寻常的事出现了。她谋求为中国家庭工作，且在过去的两周内，她与三个不同的家庭进行了接洽。三个家庭提出的第一个问题都是“你的丈夫是中国人么？”当她告诉他们，她的丈夫是美国人时，他们甚至都不愿意继续跟她谈下去。不知道这是为什么。
Mick
Don't know for sure, but it could be that the Chinese family might expect the Nanny to work long hours and be on call at a moment's notice. They may think an American husband would object to such an arrangement. I know this very thing happened to a couple we know in a nearby city (Nashville). The couple in question owned a restaurant (or maybe two) and worked from 9am until around 1am each day, seven days a week. They wanted the Nanny to be there from 8am until 1am, seven days a week. The same thing happened. When they found out she had an American husband, they thanked her for applying and showed her the door.
不太肯定，但是也许是由于中国家庭希望保姆能长时间工作且能随叫随到。他们可能认为一个美国丈夫会反对这种工作安排。我知道这种不同寻常的事情就发生在一对我们认识的，居住在附近一座城市（纳什维尔）的夫妇身上。这对夫妇拥有一家（或者两家）餐馆，并且每天从早上九点工作到凌晨一点，每周都工作七天。所以他们想雇一个保姆，工作时间是早上8点到凌晨1点，每周工作7天。同样的事情发生了。当他们发现保姆有一个美国丈夫后，他们对她的求职表示感谢并婉拒了她。
-------------译者：猫记-审核者：chen_lt------------
chilton747
Been there done that. They do not trust American husbands as they feel they will cause trouble for them. Many Chinese here are working "under the table" if you know what I mean and they fear that an American will blow their cover
就是那样。他们不信任美国丈夫，因为他们感觉美国丈夫们会给他们带来麻烦。很多中国人在这儿做着“私底下”的工作，如果你懂我的意思。他们担心美国人会揭他们的底。
ChrisA
Chilton,
A true statement, nothing like a divorce. The down-side from this when it comes to Tax Time if she has a business, and she has unreported income, she dead in the water. In my case, I have chosen to file separately, so I know we both will get Audtied, I have nothing to hide, but boy she sure has a lot to hide. In 2010 she hired a new CPA after 6 months, I confronted the CPA with the actual figures, the CPA quit immiediate, all I heard on the drive back to the store was" you cause me much trouble", she went back to the previous CPA and started the same BS all over again. If she thinks life is hard now, just wait until IRS gets a hold of her, then ICE, good by never to return.
The moral of the store is: Ladies, don't screw your husband, listen to him as he knows more about American law then your friends, if you disregard this vitial input, not only are you screwing yourself in the long run, but you risk the lost of your husband, just about every American husband doesn't want to get mixed up with legal issue when it's directed at us personally. There is an old saying "believe half of what you hear, because there is a lot of BS in between" if your unsure ask you husband and listen.
一个真正的声明，没有什么比得上离婚声明了。不好的一面就是，当报税的时候，如果她有笔生意，她隐瞒了收入，她就死定了。从我的情况来说，我选择了分开处理，因此我知道我们都会被审计，我没有什么需要隐藏的，但是，天哪，她肯定隐瞒了不少事情。2010年，她在六个月后，雇佣了一名新的会计师，我与会计就实际数据当面对质，会计师立即辞职不干了。在我一路开车回商店的路上，耳朵里听到她说的就是“你给我造成很多麻烦”，她回去找了上一任会计师，再一次重复这些废话。如果她认为现在的生活很艰难，就等着国税局逮捕她吧，接下来就是移民局，再也不能回来就最好不过了。
这个故事的寓意就是：小姐们，别毁了你们的丈夫，听听他的意见，因为他比你的朋友们对美国法律了解得更多。如果你无视重要的这一点，长远来看，不仅是你自己会毁了你自己，你还会有失去丈夫的风险。几乎每一个美国丈夫都不会想牵涉进针对我们个人的法律问题。如果你不确定，问问你的丈夫并听听他的意见。有句老话说的是“你听到东西，只能信一半，因为这里面有太多废话”
-------------译者：猫记-审核者：chen_lt------------
DennisLeiqin
Here in SoCal, to get around getting audited for doing large cash transactions Chinese businessmen and women use travelers checks. Apparently, they can exchange TCs in amounts over the $10000 bank transaction that a bank must report to the IRS. Instead of keeping large sums of cash on hand, these business persons are safe and secure having travelers checks.
My wife infrequently gets paid with a personal check and frequently gets paid in TCs. I guess my income is large enough that the small amount that I deposit from her income isn't significant enough to raise any flags.
The only drawback to her not having deductions is that she has no SS income of her own to look forward to.
在南加州，有很多中国商人或妇女使用旅行支票以避开因大量现金交易而带来的审计。他们能交换旅行支票，超过1万美元的账户交易，银行就要像国税局报告。这些中国商人们手上并没拥有大量的现金，而是使用旅游支票，这样子他们就可以很安全了。
我妻子很少通过个人支票的形式获得报酬，但常常以旅行支票的方式获得报酬。我猜我的收入足够多，因此从她的收入里存下来的一点点钱就不足以引起注意了。
对我妻子来说，没有扣除额的唯一缺点是没有标准规格的收入可以期待。
-------------译者：猫记-审核者：chen_lt------------
ChrisA
Just isn't the case here, she's simming all the cash from the business and reporting CC income only, pays her comission based employees 50/50 cash/check, this leave a small paper trail for the books. Per my lawyer, should I have agreed to file jointly, then I would have agreed to her numbers, which I don't. She did sell the business 6/2011, hasn't reported the Capital Gains to her CPA and it isn't on her final P&L statement and is still claiming the comissions that have already been paid, double dipping on comission expense?
不是这种情况，她隐瞒了所有的现金收入只报告了账户支票收入，她给自己员工的报酬方式是现金和支票各占一半。这就留下了点小记录。按照我的律师的说法，要是我同意和她联合上诉的话，那也就意味着我同意了她所报的金额，但实际上我并不同意。她确实在2011年6月出售了她的业务，却没有向她的会计师报告资本收益和它仍体现在她的最终的损益表上并仍声称佣金已经得到支付，佣金费用得到双倍支付？
Per her Taxes in 2010, she reported a loss of -$17K on $195K of gross income, I told my lawyer to take the comission expense out of the P&L statements, and you have a fairly close Income Statement. Hasn't paid any taxes period. In 2011 was a gross income of $105K, what being reported is a joke, and now that she has to file separately, it should be real interesting to see how see handles the audit.
So even when I tried to set the record straight, meeting with our Pastor in Nov 2010, to explain what makes up gross income, she didn't listen and continued as business as usual, little did she know, she was comiiting TF, all because she listened to people who said she could make a lot of money under the table and she to this day thinks she will get away with it cheating the system. Funny, that 6 weeks ago, there was a couple who had appealed there conviction to the Surprem Court, and lost, because they made the same mistake my current is making, 20 years ago, and there getting deported for it.
按她2010的税收情况，她申报了1万7千美元的损失和19.5万美元的总收入。我告诉我的律师把佣金费用从损益表中剔除，这样你有一个相当接近（真实情况）的损益表。期间没有支付任何税费。2011年，收入总额为10.5万美元，据说这是一个玩笑。现在她不得不单独申报，看看她如何处理审计，应该非常有趣。所以即使当我试图弄清真相时，在2010年11月会见我们的牧师以解释什么来源构成我们的总收入，她依旧不为所动，继续照常。她不知道，她是在犯罪。这全都是因为她听人说，通过私底下的处理，她可以赚很多钱。她至今认为她会侥幸成功欺骗这个系统。有趣的是，6个星期前，有一对夫妇为此上诉到Surprem法院，但他们失败了。因为他们犯了与我妻子目前正在犯的同样的错误。在20年前，人们会因此被驱逐出境。
-------------译者：猫记-审核者：chen_lt------------
knloregon
C & J, I feel for you ~ ! ----hope you have run your very prudent position of filing separate returns past a tax attorney --- as you describe, seems to me, there is just so much possible exposure still unaccounted for on your part. There must be other additional steps which you can take to protect your own position --- and future.
To put this in perspective, consider how the IRS might view the worst case scenario of your current position: Could they infer--separate filing aside--- that you are supporting her enterprise?
C & J，我能体会你的感受！希望你在面对税收顾问时，能处理好你谨慎的分开报税的立场---对我来说，就像你描述的那样，在你的部分还有很多可能的被揭露的部分仍然无法统计。一定还有更多的办法让你能保护好你的位置和未来。
为了能让这变得合理，考虑下国税局考虑你目前状况的最糟糕的情况：他们会不会将你们单独核算的事放到一边，而认为你是支持你妻子的事业的？
Randy W
That wouldn't seem to be something Chris ought to be discussing on a public board, beyond what he's already said
这些看起来不像是Chris应该在公共论坛讨论的东西，已经超出了他（之前）所说的内容。
david_dawei
I don't think any of it is worth discussing on a public board myself... sounds too self-serving and righteous moralism.. who really cares about how far a husband will go to distance themselves from their wife? Maybe write a book.
我自己不认为这事值得在公共论坛里讨论。。。听起来太自私和道貌岸然。。谁真正关心丈夫应与他们的妻子保持多远的距离？也许你可以写本书。 |
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发表于 2013-1-4 13:14
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