我的一位外国朋友的看法

leekayyu

这是我的一位外国朋友的观点，不代表我的想法。我发上来主要是想听听你们对他的观点有什么看法。


Just before you read this, please keep in mind that my personal opinion is neutral on the issue, and I think there are advantages and disadvantages for both sides of this issue, and hence I WON'T take any side of this issue.

While I may be neutral as to whether Tibet is part of China, I don't like it when people use the reason: "Tibet WAS part of China so it IS and WILL always" (OTHER REASONS ARE OKAY, just this reason offends me).

This reason is contradictory because if we consider it valid that "country A belongs to country B if country A belonged to country B in the past", then: China would belong to Mongolia because of Genghis Kahn (成吉思汗), Europe would belong to Italy, and North America belong to Spain. This leads us into a huge political mess.

I think it's O.K. to believe that Tibet is part of China, and one valid reason that could be used is: "That Tibet would have a better health care system and social services if it were part of China".

I personally just want to see this issue handled peacefully regardless of the turnout, and as long as it's done peacefully, no matter the result, it will be good.

communicator

告诉他Tibet不是一个国家，和他讲的没有可比性

dawn_cc

我想骂他白痴.

普通国民

Leaving aside what is your country, I want to ask is: "do not say that the history of the issue, ranging from the occupation so that you have this country's sovereignty, I agree with your point, then the world has a sovereign State »U.S.» British »or Germany" » In this world, no country is in the beginning of a complete map of China is also included. The United States and Britain, France and Germany are. We have to respect the international community is now a recognized national sovereignty. This should be no problem for it.

We repeat your so-called peace, when a person come to your home, you said that you all home, you have many years of house, property, etc., is his, you should have to move out. Well, you will be on the violation of the sovereignty of people say that you, I want peace, I put all my property have to give you, I will not say what the right »

do not know that you are not in China, but I grew up from childhood in China, I know, the Chinese government for these minorities are what has been done. Completely removed from the tax, free compulsory education in the culture, free of a house, to the seeds. A lot. . . . In college when their children than the Han people taking scores 20 points less, you know what it means to you 20 points » Is that minority children, low 20 points in the circumstances, possession of a Han Chinese children to university places. However, we Moran, we believe that countries do is right, we love this country, and loving brothers and all the minorities.

China several thousand years, is a Confucian country to country, the stress is generous, love, and patience, but we will not allow some people would like to splitting the state and the sovereign. You can keep your views, but I want to say is, you should see to Tibet to see to see how people there is life, to see those who represent the majority of the ordinary Tibetan people. Do not empty words here, it is for us, as well as the lack of respect for you

上海闲话abc

關於蒙古是否中國有三种説法。有全盤否認，完全承認。
正確的觀點是：
1260年，忽必烈汗（Khubilai Khan）定都北京，按照中國的官僚體制建立的中國的一個朝代——元朝。他本人也從那一刻起，成了中國的一個皇帝。這是中外學者普遍承認。
忽必烈汗，沒有按照蒙古制度繼承大汗（相當皇帝）位，他的汗位受到諸汗（汗，相當“王”）尊重。蒙古帝國也分裂為四五個獨立的汗國，分別融入當地的歷史，比如：伊朗、俄羅斯、中亞等。
忽必烈之前的蒙古諸汗未必是中國皇帝。中國學者承認成吉思汗，因爲他是元朝建立者，忽必烈汗的祖父。
蒙元是中國的一個朝代，還有許多證據。比如：元順帝被逐出漠北后也不放棄元朝的名號；朱元璋也承認元朝是前朝，是中國的一個朝代；忽必烈汗在1978年滅了南宋后，以宋朝的繼承者自居等等。

即使蒙元不是中國也不要緊。事實上，世界上絕大多數國家繼承有少數民族甚至異族統治者遺留的文化或政治遺產。

在歐洲：
法國有科西嘉人建立的拿破侖帝國；
英國有威爾士人的督鐸王朝；
西班牙國王，美男子菲利是德國人；
統一意大利的撒丁王國原籍是現在法國的萨瓦Savoie省；
比利時的國慶是德國人利奥波德一世就任比利時首任國王的日子；
俄罗斯的叶卡捷琳娜大帝是德國人，俄罗斯至今还控制著格魯吉亞人斯大林統治時期攫取的東普魯士、唐奴烏梁海；
德國的希特勒是奧地利人；
原籍瑞士的哈斯布堡家族出任過西班牙、奥地利、克罗地亞、波西米亞（捷克）、葡萄牙等國家的國王，和德國的前身——神聖羅馬帝國的皇帝。

在亞洲：
菲律賓、印度尼西亞、印度都繼承了前歐洲殖民者留給他們的統一。
沒有英國殖民者和蒙古人建立的莫臥兒王朝的異族統治，就從來沒有統一的印度。
伊拉克和科威特的分開是英國殖民者搞的。

美洲、非洲、大洋洲的絕大多數國家的領土是歐洲殖民者（外國統治者）留下的。
比如：美國南北戰爭中，華盛頓對南方的主權的要求，就是基於前英國殖民歷史；
魁北克歸屬加拿大是英法兩國合約的結果。

另外，滿清倒臺后，債務是由中華民國繼承的。最大的一筆，就是庚子賠款，牽涉到當時14個國家。中華民國是滿清帝國的繼承人是毫無疑問的。

其中，藏獨分子喜歡用的印度最典型。
印度歷史上，沒有異族侵略就沒有統一。
第一次是莫臥兒( Mogul, Moghol) 帝國，也是蒙古後裔建立的，統一了印度的中部和北部。不包括，現在印度南方的塔米爾人Tamil。

第二次是英國殖民者。就像藏獨分子說的，英國殖民者還殖民了緬甸。但是印度和緬甸（英屬印度支那），行政上分開的；就好像蒙古帝國時期的中亞的幾大汗國和蒙元帝國是分開的。另外，沒有英國的殖民統治，現在印度南方的Tamil塔米爾人等從來不是印度國的人，印度還把英國殖民者在非洲印度洋沿岸的不少島嶼的主權也繼承了。

我的英語不行，如果是法國人，我可以跟他們解釋。可以看法語wiki的Tibet專題，有我的參與，也可以參考。

[ 本帖最后由 上海闲话abc 于 2008-6-9 02:41 编辑 ]

leekayyu

我想了又想，他把西藏当成一个国家，是不是认为中国在50年前侵占西藏？他所知道了中国历史是从50年前开始的？他所同意的“Tibet was a part of China.”是同意之前的50年？？