不管你喜不喜欢，中欧经济错综复杂

woikuraki

London (CNN) -- When I was driving through Poland last year, all the talk was about a Chinese company's failure to complete a major motorway project. The contract was wrestled away from the Chinese and the Poles finished it themselves.

伦敦（CNN）报道---我去年驾车穿越波兰的时候，所有的话题都是关于一家中国公司未能取得一个修建主干高速公路的项目。合同抛开了中方，波兰人自己完成了它。

The details, denials and counter-claims aren't important for this article; far more interesting is the impact of any China-led project in Europe. Any news on such projects -- good or bad -- makes headlines. But the splash is bigger when such projects fail or when people starting mumbling about Chinese influence.

细节、背弃以及反索赔对这篇文章来说都不重要；由中国主导的欧洲项目带来的影响才是焦点。任何有关这些项目的新闻，不管正面的或者负面的，都能成为头条。但是，当项目失败或者当人们开始嘟囔中国影响力的时候，会带来更广泛的影响力。

What China does in Europe matters greatly, though rarely do I hear or read a positive story about China's influence.

中国在欧洲的一举一动确实举足轻重，虽然我很少听到或者读到有关中国影响力的正面的消息。

When a Chinese company bought Volvo, it was the transfer of technology that made the headlines, along with the end of the era for a venerable European brand. When an Indian company bought Land Rover and Jaguar, Tata was hailed as the savior of two venerable European brands.

当一家中国公司买下沃尔沃，这会让技术转让成为头条新闻，伴随而来的还有令人尊敬的欧洲品牌时代的终结云云。而当一家印度公司买下路虎和捷豹时，印度塔塔公司被赞为两个令人尊敬的欧洲品牌的救星。

Why is that?

这是为什么？


-------------译者：猫记 审核者：tvenana-------------

The answer appears clear. We are equally fascinated and frightened by the rise of China's economic and military prowess.

答案显而易见。中国经济实力与军事能力的崛起，让我们既陶醉又恐惧。

The Chinese government's recent trip to central Europe revealed that the hiccup in Poland has not slowed China's plan to invest heavily in the former communist states. A $10 billion credit line will be used for infrastructure projects in Poland, Hungary and other countries. It was reported that the leaders of 16 central European countries met with Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao while in Poland.

中国最近一次对中欧国家的出访显示出，发生在波兰的小插曲并没有拖延中国针对这些前共产主义国家的雄心勃勃的投资计划。一个100亿美元的信贷额度将用于波兰、匈牙利以及其他国家的基础建设。据报道，16个中欧国家领导人与中国总理温家宝在波兰进行了会谈。

China's tech giant Huawei is a growing power in the telecoms world. But any attempt it makes to expand in Europe, United States or Africa is met with fears of technology transfer to a firm linked to the Chinese military through its founder. Rightly so, governments fret over a "foreign" firm controlling the hardware that is the backbone of modern society. In Huawei's case, as the Economist recently pointed out in a front cover story, the fear is China illegally tapping into western communications, both government and private.

中国科技巨头华为公司在世界通信领域日益变强。但是，华为公司在欧洲、美国或者非洲的任何业务拓展，都将面临来自（这些地方）对一家有着中国军方背景的公司进行技术转让的担心。理所当然的，政府都会担心现代社会占支柱地位的硬件设施被“外国”公司所控制。在华为的例子里，就像最近《经济学家》报在封面故事里指出的那样，中国能非法进入西方政府以及私人领域的通信，这让人感到忧心。

-------------译者：猫记 审核者：tvenana-------------

Of course Huawei will say it's a private company with no state control and simply wants to compete on [#page#]with the likes of Nokia-Siemens, Cisco and Ericsson.

当然华为会声明它是一家私人企业而非国营，且只是想在一个公平竞争的环境里，与诸如诺基亚、西门子、思科和爱立信这些公司一争高下。


A change of leadership in Beijing will not have much impact in Europe. There is no reason to believe big changes will come from the top.


北京领导层的更迭对欧洲来说，并没有多大影响。没有理由相信高层会引起巨大的变化。

Instead, change appears to be coming from the bottom. Rising wages and increased worker benefits might raise the prices of goods exported to Europe.

反之，改变似乎来自于底部。工人工资及福利的增加可能会提高出口到欧洲的商品的价格。

It also helps to expand China's middle class which appears to love European and American products.

它还有助于扩大对欧洲和美国产品青睐有加的中国的中产阶级。

I recall growing up in America with worries about the rising power of Japan. All the products we desired were designed there or manufactured there, from video games players to VCRs and automobiles to the Walkman. With the wealth created, the Japanese were buying up property in California and buildings in New York.

我回想起美国国内由于日本崛起而滋生的担忧。我们所需的一切，从游戏机到录像机以及汽车到随身听，都在日本设计和制造。随着财富的累积，日本人在加州和纽约购买房地产。

It was feared the rise of Japan's economic prowess would never abate. But it did.

日本经济实力的崛起永远不会减弱，这让人觉得担忧。但是它减弱了。

-------------译者：猫记 审核者：tvenana-------------

Europe can't assume the same will happen with China. But the economies now are so interlinked that stingy European consumers quickly translates into weaker manufacturing output in China. That slowdown is dissected by European economists and, on any given day, it can cause stocks to fall, leading to the similar stock tumbles a few hours later on Wall Street.

当同样的情况发生在中国时，欧洲也无法承担这一切。但是，现在全球经济实现一体化，以至于小气的欧洲消费者很快转向中国的较弱的制造业输出。欧洲经济学家们仔细检查了这种减速，某一天，这将引起股票下跌，并且在几小时后引起华尔街类似的股票下跌。

Recently Burberry noted a slowdown in sales in Asia, particularly in China -- its shares promptly fell 20%. Perhaps it was an overreaction, but it shows investors are quite happy to plow money into companies with "an Asian strategy" and then ignore it -- until there is a profit warning blamed on that same market.

最近，巴宝莉注意到其在亚洲，特别是在中国的销售放缓----巴宝莉的股票立马下跌20%。也许这有点反应过度，但是它显示出投资者很高兴将资金投入到有着“亚洲战略”的公司里然后听之任之，直到在同一市场上出现盈利警告。

That goes to show Europe has to get comfortable with the growing influence of China on its shores. It cannot expect its companies to grow in the Chinese market, then be surprised when enriched Chinese companies come shopping for European companies to buy.

那说明欧洲必须适应，在其范围内日益增长的来自于中国的影响力。你不能指望欧洲公司在中国市场的销售份额增长的同时，当强大的中国公司收购欧洲公司时又表现出一脸惊讶的样子。

China needs to understand that it will take time for Europe to get comfortable with China's investments. China has to make sure its investments and intentions are transparent. Oh, then there is that small matter of reciprocity.

中国需要认识到，欧洲需要时间来适应来自中国的投资。中国必须确保她的投资计划和意图是透明的。哦，还有个互惠的原则。

评论翻译:
-------------译者：神灵与巨人 审核者：tvenana-------------

EA Marco Polo
[The US: Sick psychology of declining Roman Empire?]
作者：ea 马可波罗
【美国：衰落帝国的病态心理学？】

Does this article base on "Sick psychology of declining Roman Empire"? Does the US worry or fear to lose the top one position on the earth? Does the US military budget needs enemies? Thus illusionary articles are produced?

文章意图是基于衰落帝国的病态心理的吗？美国担心失去地球第一的地位？还是美军预算需要个假想敌？所以就写这种枪手文？

The Europe's trade with China (Mainland + ROC Taiwan + Hong Kong) is increasing on proportion in total Europe's trade. In October Mainland China's export to Europe reduces 3 % (in US dollar), in reality Europe pays more Euro to China, just because Euro decline 7%. (The exports from the US and Japan to Europe reduces more).

欧洲与中国（大陆+台湾+香港）的贸易占欧洲所有外贸的比重仍在增加。十月份中国大陆对欧出口减少了3%（以美元计算），但实际上欧洲支付了中国更多的欧元，因为欧元贬值了7%（美国和日本对欧出口减少的更多）

After great Emperor Han Wudi China had exported silk cloth to Europe for 1600 years. Europe copies lots of Chinese technology such as paper-making, compass and porcelain.
从大帝汉武帝开始中国已经出口丝绸衣物给欧洲1600多年，欧洲人抄袭了大量的中国技术例如造纸，指南针和瓷器

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IndependentMind
Nobody likes China and Chinese, not even Europe.

没有人喜欢中国和中国人，即便是欧洲。

What China can bring to Europe? Only money. We desperately need that, for now.
Besides that, China brings industrial espionage, huge amount of fake products, poor or miserable quality, thousands and thousands of illegal immigrants. China and Chinese company don't hire almost any worker or employee in the projects they are awarded. They load planes and ships with their own people and send them wherever necessary.
When the revolution started in Libya, military ships were sent to evacuate 25,000 Chinese which were working in the country at several projects. 25,000 people!!!
We don't need them. We have our own people's jobs to generate and protect.
China: stay away from Europe. Just ship your poor (possibly, avoid sending out counterfeits) products and let's keep it that way.

中国能给欧洲带来什么？只有钱。我们现在迫切需要钱。
除此之外，中国带来了工业间谍、大量的假冒产品、劣质品以及成千上万的非法移民。中国和中国公司在他们取得的项目里，不在当地雇佣任何工人或者雇员。无论哪里需要，他们就用飞机和轮船运来他们自己的人并送去那儿。
当利比亚革命开始时，军舰用来疏散在利比亚几处工程工作的25000名中国人。25000名中国人！！！
我们不需要他们。我们要雇佣自己的人们从事生产并保护好我们自己的工作机会。
中国：离欧洲远点。运走你的劣质品（也许，避免送走仿制品），我们就这么办。

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umair usman
suree.. like the Europeans hve never ever done anything ba

确实。。。好像欧洲从未做过什么。

EA Marco Polo
[Reality: Harmony between Europe and China is increasing!]

现实就是：欧洲跟中国的关系越来越和睦！

Huawei's investment (2 billion) in India is very popular by local. Europe also likes China's investment, such as Foxconn in Czech. Europe does not worry the rising of China's economy or military, at least huge Russia between them; and now Russia and Mainland China are good friends.

华为在印度的投资（20亿美元）非常受当地人欢迎。欧洲也喜欢中国的投资，比如富士康在捷克的投资。欧洲才不担心中国经济或军事实力的增长，至少他们之间还隔着强大的俄罗斯；现在俄罗斯和中国大陆关系也很融洽。

(West Europe had the tradition of evil invasion (Europe made 25 million African black slaves, tortured 8 million to die); but China has the tradition of peace.)

西欧有侵略的传统（欧洲使得2500万非洲人沦为黑奴，其中八百万被折磨致死）；但是中国有着和平的传统。

Now China has more and more tourists (and students) in Europe. Europe has more and more students are studying Mandarin. Carrefour (51% Taiwanese, 49% French Carrefour) and many European brands are growing steadily in Mainland China and Taiwan. Now the economic cooperation between Europe and China is more and more, they are comfortable, and it is just the beginning; is the US media jealous?

现在中国有越来越多的人来到欧洲旅游或者留学。欧洲也有越来越多的学生开始学习普通话。家乐福（51%的台湾人，49%的法国人）和很多欧洲品牌在中国大陆和台湾稳步增长。现在中欧的经济合作开展得越来越多，双方都很适应，并且这只是个开始。难道美国媒体嫉妒么？

-------------译者：猫记 审核者：tvenana-------------

Anti-AntiUSPropaganda
mandarin is a culturally isolated language that does not integrate well with others

普通话从文化意义上说是很孤立的一种语言，以至于不能很好地与其他语言整合。

umair usman
soon all of you would be learning it

很快，你们所有人都要学习普通话

Anti-AntiUSPropaganda
This guy's an idi0t from the people's ministry of misinformation

这家伙是一个来自人民误报部的白痴。

-------------译者：猫记 审核者：tvenana-------------
guest1241245
EA Marco Polo, you never forget to tell how much europeans have a bloody history arent you? ^^ No point going over and over on such subjects, showing that there is no good vs evil, or going throught slavery in china, or wars (look at the biggest wars in casualty... youll find 30 millions deaths in ming dynasty transition, 20 millions during taiping rebellion, 25 millions during manchu conquest and around 20 millions during an luchan rebellion, and I could continue... speak about a bloodbath to lead to the frontiers china has nowadays.... but maybe you prefer thinking that China has magically appeared with the frontiers it has now ?
How can you write such title "harmony between europe and china is incrasing", while you clearly seem to use one sided arguments to bash europe?
As a sidepoint, you write carrefour (49% french, 51% taiwnese), you could be more specific? I am probably not understanding very well but you seem to imply that carrefour is owned at 51% by taiwan interrests... if that so, I would be delighted to see a link about this very interresting news..........

回复EA Marco Polo：你永远不会忘记告诉人们欧洲有着多少血腥历史，是吧？没必要在这些话题上翻来覆去，那些问题上没有善与恶之分。或回顾下中国的奴隶制社会，或回顾下中国发生的战争（看看最大几场战争的伤亡。。。。你会发现，明代更迭时死了3000万人、太平天国起义死了2000万人，满族入侵时死了2500万人以及庐山起义时死了大约2000万人。。我能接着往下说。。。说说成就当今中国边疆的大屠杀。。。但是也许你更愿意相信中国魔法般地就有了它现在的疆域？）
当你明显用片面的话痛斥欧洲的时候，你怎么能写出“欧洲跟中国关系越来越和睦”这样的话来？

附带问一下，你写的家乐福（51%的台湾人，49%的法国人），你能不能再详细点？我不是太清楚，不过你似乎是暗示台湾拥有家乐福51%的利益。。。如果是这样的话，我很乐意看看有关这条有趣的新闻的链接。

-------------译者：猫记 审核者：tvenana-------------

Raymond Chan
Does any European business man concern about "30 millions deaths in ming dynasty transition, 20 millions during taiping rebellion, 25 millions during manchu conquest and around 20 millions during an luchan rebellion", when investments come from China?

当中国来投资的时候，有哪个欧洲商人会关心“明代更迭时死了3000万人、太平天国起义死了2000万人，满族入侵时死了2500万人以及庐山起义时死了大约2000万人”？

Anti-AntiUSPropaganda
China would collapse if we stopped trade with it. Let's stop the politically correct hand holding. They would collapse, we would go through *maybe* a recession. But they would just utterly fail. Is this mean? No, **** them

如果我们终止与中国的贸易，中国将会崩溃。让我们停止政治上的接洽吧，他们将崩溃，我们有可能会经历衰退，但是他们将完全崩溃。是这个意思么？ 不，该死的中国人。

-------------译者：猫记 审核者：tvenana-------------

umair usman
sure.. go ahead wise guy

好的，继续，自作聪明的家伙。

Anti-AntiUSPropaganda
Make in China sucks. No one needed China as little as 5 years ago. There is no need to give them compliments for stealing jobs with trade cheats. Move the factories out and let them pursue their own natural development of communism or whatever they call it where they don't let people have any rights.

与中国合作真是太烂了！至少五年以前，没有人需要中国。他们窃取就业机会和进行贸易诈骗，没有必要对他们进行赞美。把这些工厂搬出欧洲，让他们去追求他们共产主义的自然发展或随便他们怎么称呼那儿----在那儿他们不让人们拥有丁点权利！

umair usman
you freak, china has been making most of your stuff for at least the past 20 years

你这个怪物，至少在过去20年，你生活中大部分的物品都是中国生产的。

转自龙腾网

paoding

其实，蜂巢蚁穴以及粪坑里面的关系都很错中复杂的了，so ,这其实不是问题。。。