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【原文地址】http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2008/s2343240.htm
【发表媒体】澳大利亚广播公司（ABC）新闻时事节目《AM》
【翻译方式】个人原创翻译
【原文标题】Massacre claims by Dalai Lama
【中文翻译】达 赖 喇 嘛声称有大屠杀
AM - Friday, 22 August , 2008
2008年8月22日 星期五 《AM》时事节目
TONY EASTLEY: There are allegations that Chinese troops have opened fire on a crowd of Tibetans, killing a large number of people. The source for the story is a French newspaper quoting the Dalai Lama. But it's a confusing story because of the nature of the source and the remoteness of the area where it's said to have happened. For more on this I spoke to our China correspondent, Stephen McDonell, in Beijing. Stephen, what exactly is the Dalai Lama claimed to have said?
托尼•伊斯特利（节目主持人）：据称中国的军队向一群藏人开枪，杀死了大量的人员。这个消息的来源是一家法国报纸援引达 赖 喇 嘛的话。不过这也是一个让人疑惑的故事，因为消息本身的特点和所称的事件发生地点地处遥远。有关更多的情况我和在北京的我们驻中国特派记者斯蒂文•麦克唐纳进行了通话。斯蒂文，达 赖 喇 嘛究竟声称了什么？
STEPHEN MCDONELL: Well, the Dalai Lama doesn't normally speak about specific human rights allegations and in this case he is being quite specific which has made us all sit up and have a listen to it. In an interview with a French newspaper Le Monde he is quoted as saying that this week on Monday Chinese troops opened fire on a crowd of Tibetans. He said he didn't know exactly how many people had been killed but that that precise number had to be verified, but that he had heard 140 people were killed. He also said that since March 400 people in Lhasa alone have been killed by the Chinese authorities and that around 10,000 people have been arrested.
斯蒂文•麦克唐纳：哦，是这样的。达 赖 喇 嘛一般不指控具体的人权事件，这一次他谈到相当具体的事情，让我们大家都一激灵竖起耳朵来听。在接受法国《世界报》采访时，该报援引他所指称的说本周一中国军队向一群藏人开枪。他说他不知道具体的死亡人数，但是准确的数目还得核实，不过他听说140人被杀。他还说自三月份以来单单在拉萨就有400人被中国当局所杀，大约1万人被逮捕。
TONY EASTLEY: So he is day specific and he is quoting a number of sorts, is there some way of verifying this?
托尼•伊斯特利：他说得很具体，而且他还引用了一些数据。有什么方法去核实这些吗？
STEPHEN MCDONELL: Well, the problem is, as always is the case with us with Tibet, it's very difficult to find out on the ground what is going on there. Now this is supposed to have taken place in a region called Kham in greater sort of ethnic Tibet which makes it even more difficult. It's an isolated area which sort of outside the main area of Tibet and into other areas and we rang the Chinese police in those areas sort of close to there. They are denying it but it is difficult to know.
斯蒂文•麦克唐纳：哦，是这样的。问题在于，通常这种有关西藏的事情对于我们来说，很难去当地求证到底发生了什么。目前推测该事件发生的地区叫康巴，位于大藏区，这使得更难以去核实。那是一个西藏主要地区之外、位于其他地区内的一个孤立区域，我们曾经打电话给那个地区周围的一些地方的中国警察。他们否认有此事，不过还是很难知道到底发生了什么。
TONY EASTLEY: What, if anything, is the government in exile in Dharamsala in India saying about this allegation and the figures quoted?
托尼•伊斯特利：如果有什么事情发生的话，在印度达兰 萨拉的流亡政府对于这个指控和引用的数据怎么说？
STEPHEN MCDONELL: Well, this is the strange thing. We called them and their first response is, well hang on, he must have been misquoted because we don't know that that has happened.
斯蒂文•麦克唐纳：是这样的。这是一个奇怪的事情。我们打电话给他们，他们的第一反应是，哦，打住，他所说的一定被错误地引用了，因为我们不知道发生了那件事。
TONY EASTLEY: So this is what the Tibetan officials are saying to you?
托尼•伊斯特利：哦，藏人官员是这样对你说的？
STEPHEN MCDONELL: That's right, that's right. We tried to call the government is Dharamsala to confirm that the interview in fact had taken place. We are not denying that he has done the interview with Le Monde but they are saying there must have been some mistake or something like that because you know, if 140 people have been killed this Monday, well it is news to us.
斯蒂文•麦克唐纳：对的，是这样的。我们曾经打电话给达兰 萨拉的政府去求证那个确实进行了的采访。（他们说）我们不否认他接受了《解放报》的采访，但是他们说的一定有一些错误或是误会之类的东西，因为你知道，如果140人本周一被杀的话，这对我们来说是一个新闻。
TONY EASTLEY: And you would expect them to know about it?
托尼•伊斯特利：那么你原本认为他们知道此事？
STEPHEN MCDONELL: Well, you certainly would and I suppose that they have gone into a bit of a panic to try and ring Paris to try and find out well, hang on what's gone on, what's really being said and so there is quite some confusion at the moment from that end as to what he really said or if indeed, you know, that is what the Tibetans in exile believe to have taken place.
斯蒂文•麦克唐纳：是这样的，你肯定也会这么认为的，我估计他们陷入了一些慌乱，赶紧打电话给巴黎去确认，究竟发生了什么，究竟说了一些什么。（流亡政府）那边那时候确实有一些混乱，关于他确实说了什么，或者是否那是流亡藏人确实相信发生的事情。
TONY EASTLEY: There's no understating the sensitivities on all sides when it comes to Tibet. What are the political ramifications of this story do you think Stephen?
托尼•伊斯特利：当事情涉及西藏时，目前还没有各方面对此敏感程度的报道。斯蒂文，你认为此事的政治影响力在那里？
STEPHEN MCDONELL: Well, there are huge ramifications if it's true that Chinese troops have shot into a crowd of Tibetans during the Olympic Games killing dozens of people. Obviously this will create a huge fallout in terms of China's relationship with many countries. If, on the other hand, it's true that the Dalai Lama has exaggerated or, you know, has been completely wrong about this, well the Chinese Government are really going to have a field day in terms of criticising him and they will come out today and no doubt accuse him of trying to disrupt the Olympic Games, sabotage the Olympic Games even though he is on the record as saying that he supported the Games. Now there is obviously one other enormous diplomatic problem which could unfold here, is that tensions between France and China over Tibet are already very sensitive. People will remember that French President Nicholas Sarkozy threatened to boycott the Opening Ceremony over Tibet; a threat he never carried out, but tensions have been quite high between France and China over this issue. Now the fact that he has made these comments in a French newspaper well, you know, that just could reinvigorate this whole debate between the two countries.
斯蒂文•麦克唐纳：哦，是这样的。如果此事属实，中国军队在奥运期间向大批藏人开枪，打死了几十人，那么这会有巨大的后果。显然这将会对中国与其他国家的关系产生巨大的冲击波。另一方面如果达 赖 喇 嘛夸大事实或是对此事的讲法是完全错误的话，中国政府肯定会抓住机会抨击他，他们今天就会出来讲话，无疑要指控他干扰奥运会，蓄意破坏奥运会，尽管他曾经说过他支持奥运会。此外，这里明显还有另一个巨大的外交问题隐藏其间，那就是法国和中国之间因为西藏问题原本非常敏感的紧张关系。人们还记得法国总统尼古拉斯•萨科奇威胁因为西藏问题要抵制奥运会开幕式；他没有兑现这个威胁，但是在这个问题上中法关系已经十分紧张了。如今他在法国报纸上做出这样的评论，这可能重新点燃两国之间就此问题全面地争论。
TONY EASTLEY: Stephen, do you think if it's true or elements of this story are true, then the Chinese authorities would be able to keep a lid on such a thing?
托尼•伊斯特利：斯蒂文，你认为这件事或这件事中的一些元素是真实的吗？那么中国当局能够掩盖这样的事情吗？
STEPHEN MCDONELL: It is quite possible to tell the truth because, you know, these areas are quite isolated and it might take time to get out because we are not talking about Lhasa here. Like in this area which is called Kham which is one of the ancient sort of Tibetan areas, in could be in quite a remote village. Now it wouldn't take very much for dozens of people to gather and there to be an incident and people to be killed. And it might take a week or so for the, you know, information to sort of dribble out on this because the Chinese authorities are not exactly telegraphing what's going on in these areas. On the other hand, if dozens of people have been killed somewhere, you would expect something to come out eventually on it. So this is the sort of strangeness in terms of the, you know, seeming contradiction between what the Dalai Lama is quoted to have said and what his people in Dharamsala are saying.
斯蒂文•麦克唐纳：非常可能说出事情真相，因为这些地区是相当偏远的，这可能需要时间消息才能传出，因为我们不是在讲发生在拉萨的事情。像所说的这个地方叫做康巴，这是一个以前所称的藏区之一，可能发生在一个相当偏远的村子。这不太可能聚集几十人，可能是某个事件，人们被杀了。可能要花一周左右的时间消息才能一点一点传出来，因为中国当局不会真正告诉在那些地区发生了什么。另一方面，如果某个地方几十人被杀，你可以想像得到一些事情会最终传出来的。因此，从达 赖 喇 嘛被引用的话和在达兰 萨拉他的民众所说的内容来看有一些相互冲突，这似乎是有一些奇怪。
TONY EASTLEY: It will be interesting to see what the Chinese authorities say today about it. Stephen McDonell, our correspondent in Beijing, thank you.
托尼•伊斯特利：看看中国当局今天对这件事会怎么说将会是一件有意思的事情。斯蒂文•麦克唐纳，我们的中国特派记者，谢谢你。
【译者注】西方媒体怎么就这么喜欢报道达 赖 喇 嘛说的或是没有得到证实的东西呢？ |
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