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【评论待认领】美国新闻周刊:Tibet’s Rising Son

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发表于 2009-2-25 01:26 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
本帖最后由 I'm_zhcn 于 2009-2-27 00:20 编辑

Tibet’s Rising Son
http://www.newsweek.com/id/185796

[认领翻译请标注好段落序号或评论楼层、以免重复、多谢]

备注:正文已认领完毕

[1] Traditionally, the Karmapa Lama would not become the leader of the Tibetan people. Tradition may need to change.
Prayers in Exile: Can the Karmapa Lama succeed where the Dalai Lama has failed?

By Patrick Symmes | NEWSWEEK
Published Feb 21, 2009
From the magazine issue dated Mar 2, 2009

[2] For a god, he is a nice young man. lean and assured, dressed in red and gold, the Karmapa Lama is a scholar-prince greeted with bows wherever he treads. He switches between Chinese and Tibetan fluently, studies Korean at night and occasionally interrupts a translator to voice polite outrage in English. In his temporary quarters, at a new monastery outside Bodh Gaya in eastern India, he can be glimpsed at dusk, between courtly duties, pacing slowly on a lofty terrace that overlooks women gathering wheat from the parched fields below.

[3] The Karmapa, now a handsome 24-year-old with a shaved head, was born to a family of nomads in 1985. But then a party of monks, told to search "east of snow" for their new leader, found him in eastern Tibet. At the age of 7, he was enthroned as a living deity, the 17th reincarnation in a succession of Buddhist leaders of the Kagyu sect. At 14, he fled his native land in a dramatic escape over snowy passes to Nepal, and then India, where he attached himself to the exiled Tibetan leader, the Dalai Lama. Tibetans in the diaspora immediately saw something special in the Karmapa Lama—the deep personal charisma of his mentor, infused with the vigor of youth. Some saw, even then, a potential leader in his own right.

朝露晨光认领正文[1]、[2]、[3] 翻译见 #12

[4] The Dalai Lama is without peer among living Tibetan deities. As head of Tibet's biggest sect, the Gelug, he is the revered and recognized leader of his people. He has won the Nobel Prize and built a global following on little more than moral strength, somehow keeping a movement of rival sects and international pressure groups united behind the notion of justice for Tibet. Yet the Dalai Lama has failed in one key respect: China has rejected even his mildest calls for autonomy and cultural freedom. March will mark 50 years since the Dalai Lama slipped into exile. Some Tibetans now believe that the Karmapa Lama may be able to succeed where the Dalai Lama has failed—if, against all tradition and precedent, he is given an opportunity to lead.


[5] But a change of power among the Tibetans, as among less mystical movements, is a tricky business. Now 73, the Dalai Lama has shaken off minor illnesses, yet muses openly on his death or incapacity, urging Tibetan exiles to plan what may come after. By tradition, the 14th Dalai Lama will essentially hand off power to himself, when he is reincarnated after death. In one of the more intriguing rituals of Tibetan Buddhism, a search committee of monks interprets augury, dreams and mystical symbols on remote lakes, and then dashes off on horseback to identify and enthrone a baby as the next Dalai Lama. The problem is that it takes about 20 years before a credibly educated, suitably adult figure emerges to stand up for his people. And no political movement in this day and age—particularly one that China is determined to strangle—can survive a 20-year pause.

[6] "The Chinese hard-liner strategy has always been, when the present Dalai Lama passes away, the Tibetan movement will fizzle out, or disintegrate," says Lobsang Sangay, a senior fellow at Harvard Law School who participated in a recent conference on the future of the Tibetan exiles in Dharamsala, the exile capital in western India. "So the issue is, is there anyone who can replace him? What will happen to the Tibetan movement after he passes away? That's the big question."

picarqu认领正文[4]、[5]、[6] 翻译见 #34

[7] Lobsang is one of those who argues that the question already has a perfect answer: the Karmapa Lama can serve as a temporary replacement. Because he comes from a different sect, he can't become the Dalai Lama, but he could serve as regent until a new reincarnation reaches adulthood. The Karmapa is suited for this, in part, because he embodies the story of his people—a story of oppression, escape and exile that is very similar to that of the Dalai Lama himself, who fled Lhasa disguised as a common soldier in 1959. The Karmapa fled in 1999, at a time when he was under Chinese pressure to denounce the Dalai Lama. Instead, he joined the exile leader—after a daring late-December trek over the Himalaya. Some 150,000 Tibetans out of 6 million have made similar journeys to exile.

[8] In recent years, the younger monk has been increasingly seen under the Dalai Lama's wing. The two live near each other in Dharamsala. Foreign delegations seeking audience with the Dalai Lama often find the Karmapa Lama included, or are urged by the Dalai Lama himself to seek out the newcomer. "He has grown up to be a very attractive lama to the general public," Lobsang says, "but also, importantly, to the young. They can connect with him. He's of the same age. They know the hardships he went through to escape."

[9] At the meeting of Tibetan exiles in November, at least five of 15 working groups listed the Karmapa as a suitable candidate to lead the community in the future. He was mentioned by the prime minister of the Tibetan government-in-exile as a potential leader, and also by the Dalai Lama, who named him among several monks who might emerge to lead the movement. In one scenario, the Dalai Lama would appoint the Karmapa now, to serve after the senior monk's death as a formal regent, providing theological and temporal leadership until a new Dalai Lama comes of age.

[10] By naming a young and popular regent now, the Dalai Lama could assure a smooth transition to a figure who has become like a son to him, while dashing Chinese hopes of simply outwaiting the Tibetan exiles. He might also help to head off a full-blown power struggle over succession. As it is, any new leader—or joint leadership—will have to balance sectarian rivalries, win over alienated youth in Dharamsala, mollify the demands of sympathizers abroad and possibly deal with rival claimants to the title of the next Dalai Lama (each with his own powerful tutors and advisers).

realgen认领正文[7]、[8]、[9] 、[10]翻译见 # 24

[11] The Karmapa Lama is not the only possible choice to forestall a succession struggle. The Dalai Lama has spoken highly of other monks, including the reincarnation of his former teacher. In a theological twist, the Dalai Lama also ruled last year that he can, under a doctrine called madey tulku, select his own reincarnation while still alive (dualism of this kind—alive, yet already reincarnated—rarely bothers Tibetans). This would allow the Dalai Lama to shorten the period without a leader, and control the selection and education of his replacement. But Chinese officials immediately disputed the ruling, insisting they alone have the historic right to choose the Dalai Lama's successor. This means that two rival Dalai Lamas would likely emerge, clouding the issue of succession for decades. Here the Karmapa offers another potential solution: he is the only major tulku, or reincarnation, currently recognized by both the Chinese and the Dalai Lama. He could be the hinge on which relations between Tibetans and China swing in a new direction.

[12] The Karmapa's monastic order holds a prayer festival every January in Bihar, India's poorest province, at the spot where Buddha is believed to have attained enlightenment in the sixth century B.C. Called Monlam, the prayer festival had about 200 attendees in 1993. But several years ago, when the Karmapa Lama began to appear himself, the crowds swelled, and now 10,000 monks, nuns and lay people attend. They mostly want to hear the teachings of the Karmapa—regarded as the living manifestation of the four-armed goddess of compassion—accompanied by deep-voiced, ritualistic Tibetan chants and trumpets. This year the grounds of the pilgrimage site sometimes resembled a Buddhist Woodstock, with juniper smoke and an aroma of yak-butter candles blowing over the massed ranks of monastic adepts in saffron- and wine-colored robes.

[13] Among several thousand lay people present, Tibetan exiles—women in striped aprons, and men in off-the-shoulder-jackets—barely outnumbered those speaking in the accents of Boston, Birmingham and Berlin. Although it is rarely acknowledged, foreign followers translate into power. Donations from Asia and the West help build new monasteries, wealthy supplicants fill begging bowls with silk and cell phones, and lamas who can shuttle between Boulder and Bihar assume greater importance than those who cannot. The temptations of the material world are not unknown even here: at the Monlam festival, the Karmapa sacked the administrator of a monastic center in Gangtok for corruption. A sweating and visibly nervous replacement was led out of a meeting with the Karmapa as a reporter from NEWSWEEK was brought in to an interview.

kingbayern认领正文[11]、[12]、[13] 翻译见#18

[14] The rituals of Tibetan Buddhism approximate those of a medieval court, with hushed attendants, servants lighting incense and fetching tea, and hundreds of petitioners waiting for a word with the "glorious teacher of the karma people." Still, the Karmapa observes the probities of monastic life, fasting and sitting for long hours of meditation. His own interest in comfort seems no greater than massaging his toes at the end of a long day. "A little tired," he explained in his tentative English to a NEWSWEEK reporter who interviewed him twice during five days spent following him around. Visitors normally present white scarves to high Tibetan lamas, but the Karmapa seemed to make little of the offerings, and playfully drew an extra scarf from a pile of luxurious silks to toss at the reporter. Most questions from journalists were "too easy," he warned through a translator.

[15] After that flash of pride, the Karmapa directed attention away from himself—as befits one who has renounced the ego. Asked directly if he can replace the Dalai Lama as a leader, he replied that he was only one of many possible heirs. "The Dalai Lama is like the sun. No matter how many stars there are, they don't look too bright in comparison." A broader leadership could form, he suggested, "if many stars come together [with] the same strength and power and brilliance of that sun."

[16] The Karmapa shares the Dalai Lama's ability to navigate modern questions of geopolitics with a delicate balance of aphorism, riddle and ancient verities about compassion, nonviolence and generosity—along with modern nostrums on global warming and overconsumption. He has condemned violence, including the Tibetan riots against Chinese rule in Lhasa last April that killed dozens of ethnic Chinese. But he says he understands the "sheer frustration, the sheer sense of suffocation" of Tibetans scattered in exile or forced to live under Chinese rule. "For any living being," he said, "when you feel the force of being cornered time and again, more and more, the time comes when you have nothing else left except to explode."

Allen 认领正文[14]、[15]、[16] 翻译见 #26

[17] The risks of explosion were increasing, he said, and every day that the Chinese stalled in accommodating legitimate Tibetan demands merely increased the chance of chaos. "The Chinese Communist Party needs to understand that for right now, there is His Holiness the Dalai Lama. [He] is the main force that is controlling the emotions, keeping the wave of anger from spilling out. When there isn't somebody like him, then there is a great danger." But isn't there someone like him waiting in the wings—the Karmapa Lama, perhaps? "I have no goals, nor any ambitions to be of great influence," the Karmapa said during the interview at his monastery in Bihar. "But if circumstances make me a force for change, then I am a force for change."

[18] In some obvious ways, the Karmapa Lama is a wrong choice to replace the Dalai Lama. Already a tulku, or reincarnation, he cannot be chosen as the reborn Dalai Lama. The Karmapa is also from a rival school of Buddhism, the Kagyu, a small order known colloquially as the Black Hats. Naming the Karmapa as regent would effectively place an outsider at the head of the Dalai Lama's own Gelug, or Yellow Hat, sect. That's like sending an Episcopalian to oversee the Vatican for 20 years.

[19] But the choice of the Karmapa is so wrong, it may be right. If the Dalai Lama acts decisively now to name the Karmapa as regent, or appoints him to lead in a purely temporal capacity, the choice could unite Tibetans more than divide them. "Theological issues are becoming secondary," Lobsang of Harvard notes. Choosing the Karmapa Lama fits "the political reality of the Tibetan movement."

[20] "He's young," says Lhadon Tethong, the executive director of Students for a Free Tibet, which has 30,000 members worldwide. "Everyone talks about this. He's clearly a strong, dynamic character in Tibetan life, not just religious life, but spiritual and political life. He represents a new generation that continues to defy Chinese efforts to control Tibetans."

[21] Asked during a second interview if he was in communication with the Chinese, the Karmapa at first demurred and deflected. He spoke instead of an enlightened Chinese policy toward Tibet, one that would be based on demonstrating China's Great Power status and accommodating Tibetan desires for genuine autonomy along the lines proposed by the Dalai Lama. The Karmapa then rose to leave, before being called to a halt by a reminder that the question was about contacts with China.

[22] "I have no contacts, nothing political with anybody," he said—and then shrewdly conceded that some form of contact had taken place. The Chinese had conveyed, via India, that the Karmapa Lama should not engage in any political activities, he said. Yet if he remains purely a spiritual leader, China will not close a door on him.

[23] "That's perfectly fine. I don't even know what politics is," the 24-year-old monk said with a broad smile. It was impossible to know for sure, but the smile could have been signaling just the opposite.

krypton 认领正文[17]、[18]、[19] 、[20]、[21]、[22]、[23] 翻译见 #33

© 2009

谢谢大家的认领,翻译完毕跟帖回复即可,之后版主会进行编辑。

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发表于 2009-2-25 02:33 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 I'm_zhcn 于 2009-2-26 08:24 编辑

eternity 认领 翻译见 #32

Posted By: jxl269 @ 02/21/2009 8:22:20 PM

Let???s face it. Tibetans, who cannot articulate modern science and medicine in their native language, will have no hope and a place in this world if they do not transform their life and society. You simply cannot survive in this world by just being a Buddhist. Tibet, if not being subject to Chinese rule, would be subject to Indians or others (Brits tried and almost succeeded). The white America have been lecturing the blacks to transform themselves and join the mainstream (i.e. accept white culture and English) in order to be successful and get out of the slum. It is a hypocritical act from white world without giving the Tibetan???s same advice. It is a cruel fantasy to rest the hope on another Lama.

Posted By: kyant @ 02/21/2009 9:02:27 PM

The west is so outrage about the chinese oppression of the tibetans. Where are you when the Israels (children of the holocaust from Europe) is murdering the palestians without world condemnation. China has a lot to learn from America. How it just took over Hawaii and Puerto Rico by providing the locals with welfare.

Posted By: misotofu @ 02/21/2009 10:55:46 PM
Tibetan Bhuddhism is probably the only sect of Bhuddhism that sanctions slavery.

Posted By: rjgunter @ 02/21/2009 11:13:59 PM

Tibet, an inhospitable place for most anyone hardy requires joining the mainstream. IN fact, the mainstream might learn a lesson or two from them. Fortunately for the Chinese, they can supply low cost goods to lull the world to sleep while they obsess over a couple of little old men in saffron robes. Paranoia is hardly befitting a country that considers itself strong.

Posted By: BBC1 @ 02/21/2009 11:39:10 PM

The Karmapa is acceptable to China, he doesn't dabble in divisive politics like the HHDL does and China never disowned him. The biggest threat to the Karmapa comes from the exile community itself, which views him with suspicion because of his fluency in Mandarin, and his reluctance to criticize China. The Karmapa also belongs to a different sect from the HHDL. Most people don't realise that the Dalai Lama himself is not even the head of Tibetan Budhism.
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发表于 2009-2-25 03:21 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 I'm_zhcn 于 2009-2-25 22:10 编辑

KenMartin 认领 翻译见 #27

Posted By: Parvardi @ 02/22/2009 1:30:06 AM

I'll presently assume "Misotofu" must be one of the unspeakably misguided teeming hordes of highly indoctrinated Chinese Internet site posters, with thought processes that are a veritable holdover from the nightmarish Cultural Revolution days, unless he/she could possibly come back here and give some hisorical justification to the absurd statement "Tibetan Bhuddism is probably the only sect of Bhudism that sanctions slavery."

This statement undoubtedly relates to the mythic Chinese contention that, in the centuries before the absolutely brutal mid-twentieth century conquest, repression, and systematic destruction of free Tibet by Communist China, the native Tibetan populace had lived as "persecuted serfs" under a succession of "greedy" Dalai Lama incarnations... Nothing could have been further from the truth !, and the honest and simple devotion of the Tibetan people to their Buddhist religion, and to their Lamas, was inspired and unwavering, as it still remains today. Material life was off course very hard, in old Tibet, but they loved their country, and their monastic and devotional tradition, and were and are a great people !

"Material progress" was and is not everything, as the spiritual void at the heart of Communist China revealed.

Posted By: chinajcc @ 02/22/2009 2:51:08 AM

tibet is one of the integrated part of china, and the dalai lama is a historical problem that needs dialogue and negotiation between the dalai lama and the chinese government. we respect tibetan's religion,custom and tradion, and we let them create a self-govened agency to govern the tibetan area, but we will never allow tibet to seperate from china, even if the religious leader try to do this for his and a certain group's own sake other than for the whole tibetan people's sake.

Posted By: chinajcc @ 02/22/2009 2:54:14 AM

tibet is always one of the integrated part of china!!!

Posted By: falota falota @ 02/22/2009 5:49:48 AM

the chinese are unaware of many things . ordinary chinese in their vast majority only voice a false thesis set up by their demonic leadership. there is nothing authentic coming out of the empty heads of theirs . anger , greed , fear . no introspection , no honesty .

Posted By: zasd7890 @ 02/22/2009 8:46:45 AM

Nothing to say
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发表于 2009-2-25 03:25 | 显示全部楼层
Posted By: surg onc @ 02/22/2009 9:00:26 AM

dream on. that's what many westerners want - that Tibet will be pried away from China. but that's not going to happen. but the Chinese will not behave like the Americans and Australians in their wholesale extermination of the American Indians and Aborigines, respectively, in fact, Tibetan culture and society have survived up to now under centuries of Chinese suzerainty and will continue to survive and prosper in the future.

Posted By: GambleOnAmerica @ 02/22/2009 9:28:54 AM

This article is riddled with so many inaccuracies and commentary that it's hard to believe it passed the fact-checkers on the editorial staff of Newsweek--a magazine I rely on for accurate information. The writer (clearly not a journalist) has taken great liberty with the facts.

A Tibetan tulku, or reincarnation of highly accomplished practitioner, is not considered by anyone as a "god." Nothing could be further from the truth, in fact: Tibetan Buddhism recognizes the existence of gods, but classes them as one of the six kinds of beings trapped in the cycle of existence, just as humans and animals are trapped.

In nine years studying and practicing Tibetan Buddhism, and serving Karmapa, I've never heard him referred to as "Karmapa Lama." This seems to be a construct of the author, chosen for the convenience of comparison to the Dalai Lama.

To refer to schools such as the Gelug and Kagyu as "rivals" denotes a profound lack of understanding of the spiritual and temporal relationship between all schools. A high lama of any of these schools, if asked, would have told the writer that each schools is highly valued and respected by the other. "Rivalry," where one seeks superiority over another? You're really pushing the boundaries here.

Just to be clear: the Dalai Lama is the temporal head of the Gelugs, but he appoints another lama, he Ganden Lama, to be spiritual head.

And none of them are gods, thank goodness. If they were, we wouldn't be following them, because Buddha taught that one should not "take refuge," or put one's faith in, worldly gods.
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发表于 2009-2-25 05:08 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 I'm_zhcn 于 2009-2-25 05:13 编辑

Posted By: pug_ster @ 02/22/2009 4:46:46 PM

Oh gawd, Free Tibetans are at it again. Even Hillary Clinton in her first visit as Secretary of State called China as a Friend and stop proding China about Tibet, Taiwan and Human Rights. It is time for the Dalai Lama and anybody who comes after him to stop making unrealistic demands to China because China won't budge an inch about it.

Posted By: notrebud @ 02/22/2009 5:27:57 PM

I am happy to see comments that relate to what mine would be. My teacher has taught me to look deeply at my own lense when reviewing another culture. How do I use my own bias, my own culture to describe another. The use of the terms 'god' and 'deity' reflect a Christian cultural bias, inclusive language that posits a lay understanding only of this culture. It is what it is. I am reminded of a traveler who describing recently her trip to a Chinese temple, where the gardener appeared to be 'retarded'. Maybe the gardener didn't greet them, didn't speak English, didn't appear concerned with visitors, hey, but maybe she was an advanced practitioner who departs from her own culture. But to this American lawyer, seemed 'retarded.' Once we try to describe what we are seeing, we stop seeing it.
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发表于 2009-2-25 05:28 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 I'm_zhcn 于 2009-2-26 06:05 编辑

eternity 认领 翻译见 #31

Posted By: jaihind @ 02/22/2009 5:37:34 PM

jxl, what a messy argument...
"Tibetans, who cannot articulate modern science and medicine in their native language, will have no hope and a place in this world if they do not transform their life and society."

Who says they can't? A Chinese? The Chinese call a computer an "electric brain". The Tibetans can do that easily, too. The Tibetan script is based on Sanskrit and has easily the potential of Chinese characters to adapt to the modern world.

"You simply cannot survive in this world by just being a Buddhist."
Did the Tibetans claim that? That's a silly allegation.

"Tibet, if not being subject to Chinese rule, would be subject to Indians or others (Brits tried and almost succeeded)."
Who says so? Bhutan which is much smaller than Tibet and on the south side of the Himalayas is independent. If anything, they are afraid of aggression from China. They never had Han neighbours until China invaded Tibet.

"The white America have been lecturing the blacks to transform themselves and join the mainstream (i.e. accept white culture and English) in order to be successful and get out of the slum."

The Tibetans were not brought by the Han as slaves to Tibet but were the original and only inhabitants of their own country until it was invaded by Red China. This argument is colonialist and hypocritical. First I make the natives of a place a minority and then I blame them for not adjusting to the colonial lifestyle!

" It is a hypocritical act from white world without giving the Tibetan???s same advice."
Well, that much for hypocrisy.
" It is a cruel fantasy to rest the hope on another Lama."

What's cruel about resting hope on a non-violent lama? The Chinese arrest, beat up, torture and kill Tibetans to impose their views on them, and if the Tibetans try to escape across the Himalayas, they shoot them like rabbits and call it "normal border management"...
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发表于 2009-2-25 05:33 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 I'm_zhcn 于 2009-2-25 05:34 编辑

Posted By: jxl269 @ 02/22/2009 7:30:39 PM

jaihind, we Americans do what our national interests tell us to do. In addition, we Americans respect and recognize force. If we wanted to make Kosovo a nation, we did it, of course with force. If we wanted to help Palestinians and make them independent, we would do it in a second should that fit our national interests. Tibet is simply a pawn in the name of American interests. We can???t save you from the hands of Chinese. Sorry, we only pay lip service because Chinese are too strong to deal with. Your life is in your hand. Should Bhutan have oil or any valuable commodities, it is a game among its strong neighbors. Should you remain weak and not make any changes, sorry, you will be other people???s prize forever. By the way, why Tibetans learn modern science in English in India???s Tibetan???s reserve? Is Dalai Lama practicing culture genocide in India? Admit it, you do not have a good language and you need to work on it for the nest thousands years.

Posted By: jxl269 @ 02/22/2009 9:36:52 PM

Jaihind, show the world how much you can handle the science in your Tibetan tongue. Try vascular endothelial growth factor inhibitor in Tibetan. Try Sutent made by Pfizer, Butanedioic acid, hydroxy-, (2S)-, compound with N-[2-(diethylamino)ethyl]-5-[(Z)-(5-fluoro-1,2-dihydro-2-oxo- 3H-indol-3-ylidine)methyl]-2,4-dimethyl-1H-pyrrole-3-carboxamide (1:1)???. I know that Chinese, Indian, Japanese and Europeans can. That is any civilized people can.

Posted By: jxl269 @ 02/22/2009 9:41:57 PM

Jaihind, exercise your Tibetan tongue with bcr-abl inhibitor made by Norvatis. methanesulfonic acid;4-[(4-methylpiperazin-1-yl)methyl]-N-[4-methyl-3-[(4-pyridin-3-ylpyrimidin-2-yl)amino]phenyl]benzamide. Show the world how smart you are.
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发表于 2009-2-25 05:36 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 I'm_zhcn 于 2009-2-25 05:37 编辑

Posted By: bardonaut @ 02/22/2009 11:45:05 PM

This isn't even the real Karmapa, but an imposter picked by the Chinese government. The Dalai Lama went along because it gives his Gelug lineage the opportunity to use his reputation to forcibly take over the independent Kagyu lineage. For centuries Dalai Lamas have tried to conquer the older Kagyu lineage, and it is only thanks to a complete abnegation of journalistic methods and integrity in the West that it is even possible now. As a Buddhist it seems clear to me that if we are ever to understand China, the Western media will have to look farther than the Tibetan Mafia headquarters in Dharamsala for their information about Tibetan politics and religion.

Posted By: jaihind @ 02/23/2009 12:19:31 AM

jxl. I am glad for you that you are such a strong American who can dish out at his pleasure. You must be really proud of yourself.
How about kicking the Chinese commies? If you're that strong, it looks undeserving that you should only be bullying those poor Tibetans.
Maybe, it is as you say and you haven't got the b*lls for it. Or maybe it's because you are Chinese and all this "We Americans" is just bull... Who knows?

Posted By: jaihind @ 02/23/2009 12:37:32 AM

jxl, with regard to the Tibetan language you've had the follwoing to say:
"I know that Chinese, Indian, Japanese and Europeans can. That is any civilized people can."
And
"Admit it, you do not have a good language and you need to work on it for the nest thousands years."

Firstly, that is no doubt an insult to Tibetans.
Secondly, the Tibetans have been denied their own development in their own country by the Chinese invaders.
If you have been to Tibet, you will have noticed that all signs are in large Chinese letters and - if at all - in much smaller Tibetan letters underneath. Most schooling, in particular advanced studies, are in Chinese.
How is the Tibetan language supposed to develop under these circumstances?

Posted By: jxl269 @ 02/23/2009 8:16:13 AM

Jaihind, Dalai has his time and power in India. Why he and his followers has to educate the Tibetan kids in English for modern science? Do not blame the Chinese for this weakness in Language. It is your people's fault. Admit it. Then you can correct it. If so, you might have a chance to become a strong people or nation. More than 1000 years ago, Tibetan was stronger than the Chinese. They had occupied half the Chinese territory at the end of Tang Dynasty. Your fate is in your own hand. We Americans will not save you, instead, we use you as a pawn for our natuional interests. Ask Dalai Lama, he knows better than anyone. The truth is that he dares not to vent it out. He is a just famous beggar around the globe.
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发表于 2009-2-25 05:39 | 显示全部楼层
Posted By: Star777 @ 02/23/2009 11:34:21 AM

The post by "gambleonamerica" was right on. Please stop calling him "the Karmapa Lama" and writing articles which try to pit him against the Chinese government. It seems that the American press is always looking to stir up a good fight - how sad. Why isn't your artiicle about the forthcoming possibility of a peaceful agreement? Or perhaps HHK will not even be a political leader but will work with devoted practicioners to really expand Buddhism in the west? Could America be covered in beautiful monasteries, retreat centers with organic gardens feeding the poor and temples instead of military bases? Let us dream so. "Karmapa Lama" is some strange American press nickname started by last years Time magazine article, I believe. His name is His Holiness The 17th Karmapa - just like you say His Holiness The 14th Dalai Lama. Both have the titles of "His Holiness" which should be placed before their names. "H.H. Karmapa" is also ok.

Posted By: Star777 @ 02/23/2009 12:05:00 PM

His name is "His Holiness The 17th Karmapa" or HHK for short. The press should really get that right and stop calling him "Karmapa Lama". As far as the person who commented about Tibetans not being able to speak about science and medicine - have you have never heard of the entire systems of tibetan medicine? Maybe HHK won't be a political leader at all but a spiritual leader who works outside of the political "limelight" to expand Buddhism in the west and establish many beings in realms beyond suffering. Visualize the USA covered in beautiful temples and organic gardens feeding the poor and supporting full time practicioners and monastics. Newsweek will be reporting on the latest empowerments and temple raisings instead of wondering if it can bait two political leaders into some sort of staged "fight". Oh yes and the USA should grant immediate political asylum to all tibetans! That's a story for you, newsweek!

Posted By: grrrr @ 02/23/2009 1:24:32 PM

The 14th Dalai Lama is very widely respected. Out of respect, he is often referred to as a spiritual leader for all of Tibetan Buddhism. But the Dalai Lama institution is a product of Gelugpa political hegemony, which is over and not coming back. The idea that everyone agrees that political leadership is the eternal province of the Gelugpa is false.
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发表于 2009-2-25 05:42 | 显示全部楼层
Posted By: gesar @ 02/23/2009 1:43:25 PM

You should also do a little historical research before you start saying that the Karmapa holding the seat of the Dalai Lama is without precedent. Although the Gelugpa have been the predominant order for the past several hundred years, during the time of Mongolian rule in China, the Kagyu were the ruling order of Tibet.

And I agree that the press should 1) get HHK's name right and 2) stop trying to invent/stir up controversy just to increase readership -- especially when it comes to such a critical and delicate situation. You people need to take more responsibility for your actions. If there's actually something going on, report it. But trying to dig up one person to offer contrary points of view -- or worse, inventing the contrary points of view yourselves -- in order to increase article interest turns events into something they're not. It amounts to nothing more than inventing stories for profit.

Posted By: Aditya Mookerjee @ 02/23/2009 2:03:42 PM

I loved to read this piece. It was very thought provoking and enlightening. The Karmapa Lama mentions the legitimate aspirations of the Tibetans, in Tibet. He must enumerate them for the readers of Newsweek. I have the highest regard, for the Dalai Lama, and the Karmapa Lama. I have a book written by the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama is from another sect of Tibetan Buddhism, but just as all sects regard the Dalai Lama, so must all the sects be regarding the Karmapa Lama. I am very happy, that both the enlightened personages are in India.

Posted By: Aditya Mookerjee @ 02/23/2009 2:07:43 PM

Religion is revered because the Dalai Lama and the Karmapa Lama, are the spiritual guides to many. I feel very reverential when I remember the Dalai Lama, and the Karmapa Lama.
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发表于 2009-2-25 05:45 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 I'm_zhcn 于 2009-2-25 05:47 编辑

Posted By: BODGYALO @ 02/23/2009 4:53:20 PM

His Holiness the Gyalwa Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje is one of three gems of tibet. The gems that could navigated our road to freedom. Because stuggle of Tibet is "just".we are simply seeking land where we can expand our "lab of Inner peace"which can help the whole world someday. There might be rivality between both sect, but their destiny is shared.

He is one of manyt protector of our nation, he loved to end the suffering not just for His fellow TIbetan but all sentient beings. He is one who prays prosperity in ChIna. he is fully realized being.

Posted By: TibetFreedom @ 02/23/2009 7:53:04 PM

Karmapa will accomplish all. He is the enlightened "man of action" who will lead those fortunate ones who see, hear, or think of him. Karmapa is inconceivable and limitless in his blessing power. Also very intelligent and compassionate, just read his recent Environmental guidelines for Karma Kagyu monasteries and retreats. Ancient wisdom in a modern young teacher, we are very lucky to have the Karmapa return to help us confused beings. Karmapa chenno!

Posted By: aloha1989 @ 02/24/2009 4:12:03 AM

So many people here. I prefer Christianity. If under communist rule Tibetans turn to Jesus like people in other parts in China, I don't mind. Under Communists' percecution for five decades, Chinese Christians has grown 12 folds, what a miracle God has made! You have to give up something old to change. Communists help to wipe out the old.

Posted By: San Ying @ 02/24/2009 5:21:58 AM

The Karampa is the answer. He is the Obama of Tibet.

Posted By: San Ying @ 02/24/2009 5:25:37 AM

The Karmapa is the answer. He is the Obama of Tibet and Buddhism.
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发表于 2009-2-25 08:09 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 I'm_zhcn 于 2009-2-27 00:26 编辑

我认领正文,第1、2、3段落

Tibet’s Rising Son


我认领正文,第123段落

[1] Traditionally, the Karmapa Lama would not become the leader of the Tibetan people. Tradition may need to change.
Prayers in Exile: Can the Karmapa Lama succeed where the Dalai Lama has failed?
传统上,噶玛巴喇嘛是不能作为藏人的领导人的。但是,传统有可能要改变了。
流亡藏人的祷告:达赖喇嘛未成功的事业,噶玛巴喇嘛能成功吗?

By Patrick Symmes | NEWSWEEK
Published Feb 21, 2009
From the magazine issue dated Mar 2, 2009
时代周刊记者 Patrick Symmes
2009221 发稿
200932印刷

[2] For a god, he is a nice young man. lean and assured, dressed in red and gold, the Karmapa Lama is a scholar-prince greeted with bows wherever he treads. He switches between Chinese and Tibetan fluently, studies Korean at night and occasionally interrupts a translator to voice polite outrage in English. In his temporary quarters, at a new monastery outside Bodh Gaya in eastern India, he can be glimpsed at dusk, between courtly duties, pacing slowly on a lofty terrace that overlooks women gathering wheat from the parched fields below.
最为一个神,他是一个精致的年轻男人。身材清瘦、表情自信、穿着红黄相间的袈裟,噶玛巴喇嘛总是像一个儒雅的王子一般接受着他人的鞠躬。他在中国人与藏人之间左右逢源,晚上会学习朝鲜语,有时候还会礼貌地用英语纠正翻译的一些发音上的问题。印度东部菩提伽耶外的一个新的寺庙是噶玛巴喇嘛的临时住所,黄昏时分,人们常会看到他在高高的台阶上慢行,眺望着下方在焦干的田地里收割麦子的妇人。

[3] The Karmapa, now a handsome 24-year-old with a shaved head, was born to a family of nomads in 1985. But then a party of monks, told to search "east of snow" for their new leader, found him in eastern Tibet. At the age of 7, he was enthroned as a living deity, the 17th reincarnation in a succession of Buddhist leaders of the Kagyu sect. At 14, he fled his native land in a dramatic escape over snowy passes to Nepal, and then India, where he attached himself to the exiled Tibetan leader, the Dalai Lama. Tibetans in the diaspora immediately saw something special in the Karmapa Lama—the deep personal charisma of his mentor, infused with the vigor of youth. Some saw, even then, a potential leader in his own right.
噶玛巴现在是一个剃着光头、24岁的英俊青年。1985年,他出生于一个游牧家庭。后来,寻找灵通的僧侣根据新的领袖会出现在“雪域之东”这一预言,在西藏的东边找到了他,使他成为了僧侣的一份子。在7岁大的时候,他被认定为前世噶玛巴喇嘛的转世灵童,从而成为了藏传佛教噶举派的第十七世大宝法王。在14岁的时候,他戏剧性地离开了故乡,经过积雪重重的小路逃到了尼泊尔,然后去了印度。在印度,他将自己托付给流亡藏人的领袖达赖喇嘛。散居在外的藏人看到了噶玛巴喇嘛的一些不同之处——他的个人顾问资历、才学都很深,他自己又充满了年轻的活力。如此,人们凭着他自己的身份,看到了一个潜在的领导人候选者。

匆匆翻译的,红色部分,我不保准,哪位帮改改。

这种文字游戏不能指望将多重含义全面地翻译出来,按上下文中的意思妥协即可,比如“西藏的新星”。

courtly duties”指的是“主持(日常)宗教仪式的任务”。为什么叫“courtly”,见原文第14段。

黄昏时分,在宗教仪式之间的休息时间,人们常会看到他……

“even then”是常用语,意为“早在那时”。“in one's own right”也是常用语,意为“独立”、“依靠自身能力(而非周围某个名人的携持和捧场)”。

早在那时,有些人就认为他有潜力完全依靠自身能力成为一名领袖人物。墨羽 发表于 2009-2-26 04:10

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发表于 2009-2-25 09:33 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 picarqu 于 2009-2-25 09:43 编辑

哇,楼上那位翻译太快了……
我想认领 4、5、6,不过现在没有时间做,而且做到可能比较慢,可不可以迟点?Q56)

如果可以,那偶就挑战一下……
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发表于 2009-2-25 13:30 | 显示全部楼层
那我就7.8.9.10段吧,问一下楼主,翻完了,以回帖的形式发表吗?
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发表于 2009-2-25 14:03 | 显示全部楼层
接楼上,11、12、13
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发表于 2009-2-25 14:13 | 显示全部楼层
realgen 的 朋友
“Allen”:
男,未注册用户
认领14.15.16
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发表于 2009-2-25 16:45 | 显示全部楼层
17~22
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发表于 2009-2-25 17:19 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 I'm_zhcn 于 2009-2-27 00:35 编辑

[11] The Karmapa Lama is not the only possible choice to forestall a succession struggle. The Dalai Lama has spoken highly of other monks, including the reincarnation of his former teacher. In a theological twist, the Dalai Lama also ruled last year that he can, under a doctrine called madey tulku, select his own reincarnation while still alive (dualism of this kind—alive, yet already reincarnated—rarely bothers Tibetans). This would allow the Dalai Lama to shorten the period without a leader, and control the selection and education of his replacement. But Chinese officials immediately disputed the ruling, insisting they alone have the historic right to choose the Dalai Lama's successor. This means that two rival Dalai Lamas would likely emerge, clouding the issue of succession for decades. Here the Karmapa offers another potential solution: he is the only major tulku, or reincarnation, currently recognized by both the Chinese and the Dalai Lama. He could be the hinge on which relations between Tibetans and China swing in a new direction.

噶玛巴并不是(接替达赖喇嘛的)不二选择,他还没有在这场接替者的竞争中获得垄断性的优势。因为,达赖喇嘛还曾高度地评价过一些其他的僧人,这其中还包括(他所说的)他从前的老师的投胎转世者。去年,达赖喇嘛还运用神学的手段,根据一则被称之为madey tulku的教条,规定他可以在生前自行选择自己的转世人(这种宣称一个人活着的时候已经投胎转世的二元论,很少有藏人抵触)。这个规定(如若执行下去)将缩短达赖喇嘛脱离领导地位的时间,并且他的替代者的选择和培养也控制在他自己的手里。中国内地当局立即对此规定提出了异议,并强调在选择达赖喇嘛接替者这一具有历史意义的事件上,权力只属于中国和中国人民。这就意味着(西藏政坛)有可能形成两个达赖喇嘛敌对的局面,给今后几十年内(西藏)继承权争端问题(的解决)蒙上了一层阴云。现在,噶玛巴(的出现)为解决这个问题提供了另一种可能的方案:他来做中国人民和达赖喇嘛共同认可的惟一的主事tulku,或者叫转世者。他有望成为促使西藏和内地关系向好的方向转变的枢纽地位的人物。

[12] The Karmapa's monastic order holds a prayer festival every January in Bihar, India's poorest province, at the spot where Buddha is believed to have attained enlightenment in the sixth century B.C. Called Monlam, the prayer festival had about 200 attendees in 1993. But several years ago, when the Karmapa Lama began to appear himself, the crowds swelled, and now 10,000 monks, nuns and lay people attend. They mostly want to hear the teachings of the Karmapa—regarded as the living manifestation of the four-armed goddess of compassion—accompanied by deep-voiced, ritualistic Tibetan chants and trumpets. This year the grounds of the pilgrimage site sometimes resembled a Buddhist Woodstock, with juniper smoke and an aroma of yak-butter candles blowing over the massed ranks of monastic adepts in saffron- and wine-colored robes.

按噶玛巴的庙宇的规矩,每年1月都会在Bihar举行祷告节。这是印度最贫穷的一个邦,在这里人们都相信佛是在公元前6世纪获得了(神的)教化的。1993年,这个被称之为Monlam的祷告节只有大约200人到场参加。然而几年前当噶玛巴喇嘛公开露面时,前来的人大大地增多了。如今,参加祷告节的僧人、修女和道外人士已有10000人之多。他们主要是想来听一听,那个被认为是大慈大悲的四手女神的凡间使者的噶玛巴的教义,以及西藏人祷告仪式中声色低沉的圣歌和喇叭。今年,这块朝圣的土地时常像是在举行佛教徒音乐盛典一样,刺柏果闷烧的烟雾和牦牛油蜡烛的幽香轻轻吹散在穿藏红和深红色礼服的僧侣长者密集的人群之中。

[13] Among several thousand lay people present, Tibetan exiles—women in striped aprons, and men in off-the-shoulder-jackets—barely outnumbered those speaking in the accents of Boston, Birmingham and Berlin. Although it is rarely acknowledged, foreign followers translate into Power. Donations from Asia and the West help build new monasteries, wealthy supplicants fill begging bowls with silk and cell phones, and lamas who can shuttle between Boulder and Bihar assume greater importance than those who cannot. The temptations of the material world are not unknown even here: at the Monlam festival, the Karmapa sacked the administrator of a monastic center in Gangtok for corruption. A sweating and visibly nervous replacement was led out of a meeting with the Karmapa as a reporter from NEWSWEEK was brought in to an interview.

在数千名到场的道外人士中,女人们身着有斑纹的围裙、男人们身着露肩夹克的流亡藏民的人数才刚刚超过那些操着浓重的波士顿、伯明翰以及柏林口音的外国人。尽管这个事实还未被大部分人承认,但是国外的追随者已经成为(一股不可忽视的)力量。来自亚洲其它国家和西方国家的友情捐助使得崭新的修道院盖起来了,申请加入的富人们还把丝绸和手机放入行乞者的碗中,而能够穿梭游走于BoulderBihar之间的喇嘛则承担了其他人无法胜任的更为重要的角色。(因为)物质世界的诱惑无处不在,即使在这里也不例外:在Monlam这个节日,噶玛巴就以腐败为由解除了Gangtok的一个僧侣中心主管的职务。这次令腐败者们明显感到惊慌和紧张的走马换将是由一个会议引发的,新闻周刊报道了此会议并进行了采访,而噶玛巴是以一名记者的身份参加这次会议的。

个人认为本段原文的最后一句语法不对,因而没读懂,按自己理解随便写写,请高人多多指教!^_^

这句语法没有问题,但是结构确实有点复杂,容易误读。

简化:A replacement was led out as a reporter was brought in.

替补被领出,当记者被带入时。

补全:A (sweating and visibly nervous replacement) was led (out of a meeting with the Karmapa) as a (reporter from NEWSWEEK) was brought (in to an interview).

本刊的一名记者去采访噶玛巴时,看到一名刚刚和噶玛巴谈完话的新主管满头大汗、神情紧张地走出来。墨羽 发表于 2009-2-26 04:21

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发表于 2009-2-25 17:22 | 显示全部楼层
谢谢楼上各位了,看来这种协作翻译方式不错,如何改进,大家多提意见:smile:
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发表于 2009-2-25 17:46 | 显示全部楼层
[11] The Karmapa Lama is not the only possible choice to forestall a succession struggle. The Dalai Lama has spoken highly of other monks, including the reincarnation of his former teacher. In a theol ...
kingbayern 发表于 2009-2-25 17:19



老李比我快多了啊.......
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