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发表于 2009-5-2 21:31
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anti racist of Sydney 9:10am today
I really hate racism being brought into this debate, as if westerners are the only ones who have a history of racism, despite our past we in Australia can count ourselves as one of the least racist countries on earth, its our history and continued dedication to look for and stamp it out that puts us in this class, China on that other hand doesn't have this at all, the Chinese government will label foreigners and foreign governments what they wish, they paint us with the brush of the white devil and throw fuel on anger of false indignation of the Chinese populace.
Danielle of Sydney 5:08pm April 17, 2009
It scares me that the majority of the Chinese population stand by everything that their Government is responsible for from the good to the bad (and the very bad - Tibet, censorship, refusing to get involved in African conflicts they are responsible for, etc). I am Australian and freedom of speech means I have my own opinions separate to that of my Government. Sometimes I like what our Government is doing and sometimes I don't. I have no problem criticising decisions the Government makes that I disagree with. For example I believe Australia has a terrible history of Aboriginal neglect and abuse and Kevin Rudd's apology should only be seen as a first step, Australia is way behind the times in terms of gay rights and maternity leave, I believe our last leader, Howard forgot that Australia is a society and not just an economy and on a foreign policy scale Australia has certainly made it's share of mistakes. I think all countries, including Australia can strive to do better. Hopefully China will one day be able to admit its mistakes and work through them and strive to make the world a better place for everyone
student of melbourne 1:47pm April 17, 2009
nick of Dundas, "western countries are ruled by a class of super rich people who exploit middle class and working class from every aspect of their daily life." So China isn't? The officialdom of China has not only the supreme political power but also the entire nation's wealth generated by its juggernaut of state capitalism (the evil form of capitalism you should detest, the combination of dictators and big industrialists), it is the class of super rich people corrupted to the core. And your understanding of "democracy" must be distinctly Communist Chinese since the last People's Congress just reaffirmed that China will never adopt the Western style of democracy. And what is "democracy" in the PRC sense? - "Cooperation under the auspices of CCP". "Human rights"? - "Getting fed". These are all official PRC positions, how could you even claim that China will become more democratic than western countries when the understandings are completely irreconciliable? And Ant of Tianjin, Communist Party of China raised hundreds of millions out of poverty, so did Nazi party of Germany brought their country out of the misery of Great Depression and WWI shame. You're implicitly implying that there could be no other ways, it is the only way forward, how could you say that when you haven't even faced with choices? The freedom to deliberate the future? How could you say that when all dissenting voices are stiffled? Your argument is not only tautological but you go as far as claiming that "human rights abuses do not exist" in China. Let's forget the damn liberals, socialists, the conscience of this world cannot agree with you along with mountains of evidence. And jeffrey of sydney, racism is not welcomed in Australia, as a Chinese I urge you to retract such statement and stop whipping up anti-Chinese feeling.
Mark of Melbourne 11:52am April 17, 2009
Angry chinese bloggers, challenge yourself and your world view. Read histories of China that weren't written and sanctioned by the Communist Party of China. Do you really think what you learnt at school under an authoritarian regime would ever critizise itself? Seriously consider that. You can be proud of your country and your people whilst still being critical of your government. That is called freedom. However freedom takes time to learn if you've been brought up in a society which does not encourage diversity or free thought. Don't get angry at what I've written. Challenge yourself and find the truth.
Beijing Beggar of Sydney 8:30pm April 16, 2009
In this world as we all may or may not know, money talks. What I find absolutely funny is the fact that many of Australia's Governments have time and time again, expressed their pro-capitalist ideals, yet have regulated the market to interfere with deals going forward as if the Government owned these publicly listed companies (Oz Minerals???). These companies need Money. Money to run operations, to pay workers to keep the cash flow - flowing. Without money from who ever these companies would be bankrupt. Has Joe Blogg got the money to help these companies? Is the government going to Bail these companies out? Who has the money? China has over 1.7 trillion in capital reserves... money talks... that is the reality, or else you can stomp your feet disgreement and allow these companies to head down the Ansett Singapore Airlines Route... the rotting route.
Elise of Perth 5:02pm April 16, 2009
jeffrey of sydney, how about you give us your real chinese name? "So at most difficult time,China will give you a hand same as China came to rescue Australian mining company now." Bah, humbug. "Give you a hand"..."rescue"??? How incredibly altruistic and noble - no self-interest at all, hey?! So the rest of us "may lay on their knees to ask China again...". So much modesty...hope this isn't at all representative of their future attitude?
jeffrey of sydney 11:20am April 13, 2009
Rowan Callick may hate China.But Chinese people don"t like you people.Rowan must remember that Gordon Brown asked China to sent troops to Afghan,it was rejected by China.You know why? Nine out of ten in China don"t trust you guys.If Pakistan collapse within a few months,Brown,Kevin and Obama may lay on their knees to ask China again. So at most difficult time,China will give you a hand same as China came to rescue Australian mining company now. There is a saying in China"when you drink,don"t forget who dig the well".
jeffrey of sydney 7:49pm April 12, 2009
China became the hot topic of Australian media and politians.Why? Because China wants to replace US dollars by another currency before G20.This is like a knife going through Australian media"s heart,making so many angry.Honestly it is bit early to say that,but the day of US dollars are numbered.Immaging which country printing notes day and nights without stop.So not to be angry,think it carefully,Rowan!
jeffrey of sydney 7:48pm April 12, 2009
China became the hot topic of Australian media and politians.Why? Because China wants to replace US dollars by another currency before G20.This is like a knife going through Australian media"s heart,making so many angry.Honestly it is bit early to say that,but the day of US dollars are numbered.Immaging which country printing notes day and nights without stop.So not to be angry,think it carefully,Rowan!
finophile of finland 3:33am April 08, 2009
I believe that you have touched on a massive topic here. To be honest this is something which gets down to the cultural basis of acceptance of what is real. I think that my best understanding of China came from living in South Korea, where they have had a long historical relationship with China almost as a vassal. I think it will be extraordinarilly difficult to change the cultural momentum of China, as they have a prespective of requiring it be regarded as the center of everything. For those who are unaware of it, the very characters which are used to represent China mean "center country" The strong nationalism which is being used is not only for the putting perspective on international relationships, but is also central to policy maintaining their own unity. As someone who has spent quite some time assisting Chinese in Australia I can only say "good luck" with any communications that need China to understand others. It will be a long and difficult road and perhaps it will end up in us needing to change (as there is only 20 million of us). :-)
SDPhatCat of Footscray, VIctoria 1:55am April 08, 2009
The students' problem is, they are so convinced of the concept of Chinese people. But actually there're no chinese as a collective race, there're too many on the massive land of China, such as Tibetan, Uyghur just name a few. A country should be multiracial and multicultural, like Australia or US. But the leadership of China created and insisted to brain wash its people the story, that's the ultimate dead end. And I do not think it would change in the foreseeable future.
Dylan of Melbourne 10:45pm April 07, 2009
I'm afraid this article is too balanced for the rednecks to come out of the closet with their usual China-bashing. But if Mr Callick says that the Chinese erroneously view the West through the narrow prism of the era of Western colonialism, then Westerners make the same error by viewing China through the narrow prism of Tibet as seen by the Free Tibet movement and wild stereotypes. The truth is seldom black and white.China is both repressive and responsive at the same time.Not perfect but far better than more brutal dictatorships like Zimbabwe or Burma. Far better to engage with China than demonise it if you want it to change
Ant of Tianjin, China 7:28pm April 07, 2009
It is the Communist Party of China that raised hundreds of millions out of poverty and saved the nation from foreign domination. Attacks on the Party that saved the Chinese people are attacks on China because it undermines the countries continued growth. No other Party can build a prosperous China for all Chinese people so the people will defend their Party against all attacks. People are not so stupid as to forget the deeply entrenched anti-communism in the west and know that "innocent" criticism is not designed to improve the system but to attack and destroy the Party and Socialism. And save me the bleeding heart liberal cries of "human rights abuses" that dont exist. I await the frenzied cries of "communist brainwashing" and other iberal nonsense!
Ben Gee of Canada 7:13pm April 07, 2009
Chinese are very sensitive, maybe too sensitive in their dealing with Western countries. If I remember correctly, about 3 years ago, a Chinese company made a bid to buy Noranda Mines of Canada. The Canadian government did not allow the deal to go through. However, a Brazilian company was allowed to buy the mine. If a Western company make the same deal with Rio, would the reaction be the same?
Sonya of sydney 6:30pm April 07, 2009
great article Rowan! thanks for the clarity of thought there
Adam of Perth 5:28pm April 07, 2009
It hurts my feelings that the Chinese prop up the Stalinist regime in North Korea, massacre people in Tibet and rape Africa for resources in a more cynical manner than any 19th century colonialist. Stand in their way and you "hurt" their "feelings".
wchen of Sydney 5:12pm April 07, 2009
Rowan, Thak you for the rational analysis. I always think that John Howard had a great and successful China policy: To focus on trade only, and to ignore all other annoying political stuffs. For Australia's sake, our government should follow John Howard's policy.
charly of UK 4:59pm April 07, 2009
Please rethink your argument Chinese people and its government are 2 different matters. Yes, they are on item. If you don't like one of it, then you don't understand the whole. Bush is the product of American People, so its the Chinese government. the election doesn't matter, the reality is the same. I don't love any government, but the currnet Chinese one is the best one in the last decades.
Paddy Lane of Adelaide 4:53pm April 07, 2009
This topic is very important to our national interest. Callick is correct in drawing attention to our somewhat immature and unknowing comments about our relationship with China. Of late party partisanship has muddied the waters. This does not serve our national interest. Additionally, Callick has touched on a very important point : how do we understand the way the Chinese public in China will, or likely to, react to percieved negativism on our part, wrong may that be. And in an increasingly open China will their leaders be able to ignore such Chinese public criticisms of our own half-baked debate ?
Nemo Incognito of Hong Kong 4:52pm April 07, 2009
Rowan, this is far and away the most cogent and sensible piece of writing on the foreign investment imbroglio I have seen yet. I am not sure why it has taken weeks to appear but its nice to see someone has picked this up. We do need to have an honest open discussion of its merits and problems.
jhsyd of Sydney 4:37pm April 07, 2009
"...we risk ending up with a free trade agreement with China that is indeed an unequal treaty..." Such as the US-Australia free trade agreement, from which the US has benefited far more than we.
longfulan of Newcastle 4:20pm April 07, 2009
Rowan, I lived and worked in China for 8 years and in many ways I miss my life there. The student who asked you that question is like most in China. They are unable to see that any criticsm of any aspect of China is not a criticism of China or its people. They have the extraordinary ability to shoot themselves in the foot, such as the time they banned Bill Clinton's book (picture of Bill with the Dalai Lama) on the day the US congress was voting whether to support China's enrance to the WTO. Their response to Sarkozy's meeting of the Dalai Lama of course puts the Dalai Lama on equal footing with the Chinese government itself. Can they not see this?
phillipp of cairns 3:00pm April 07, 2009
The present Chinese government is a vicious military dictatorship. It is utterly corrupt and without morals or scruples. It treats its own people as medieval serfs. China has a prison population of around 60 million inmates (mainly political dissidents), which is used as slave labour and as a body organ pool; body organs are forcibly removed and sold for transplants worldwide resulting in the death of some prisoners. No country in the world can compete with their manufactures, and hence workers in developed countries lose their jobs. Do we really want to get into bed with such a monster? Our own Mandarin monster, Krudd, a notorious sycophantic Sinophile, thinks so. Is Krudd a Chinese mole, recruited decades ago, and now implanted into our midst to facilitate a covert Chinese infiltration of Australia ? How has this man Krudd, risen to his position. He is not intelligent, he has no personality, his rhetoric is boring in the extreme, and never unscripted. There is no spontaneity in the man; he cannot even dress himself it seems, and being very very vain he dyes his hair.
Pong Pong Tree of Perth 2:23pm April 07, 2009
Rowan Callick is a much more sensible writer than several that have written in the Australian in the past 2 weeks. In recent months, I have noticed that local media are fanning anti-Asia feelings in Australia, in particular anti-China. This kind of attitude would not benefit Australia in the long-run. Asian countries can also take similar attitudes when Australia wants to invest in their countries. Australia must not be too nationalistic and more open to cross investments. If British and Americans can invest in Australia, why not Asians? Is this rascism? Australia has always been a winner but the world hopes that Australia would not be a bad winner.
bill of perth 2:21pm April 07, 2009
Agree with the thrust of the article. Feel that it is very important, especially given the sensitivity of the current generation of chinese to any adverse comment.
Rhys 12:59pm April 07, 2009
The "Why do you hate China question?" is indeed common. There is also a very strong tendency to 1)Conflate national pride with support of the CCP 2) conflate what foreign newspapers write with the attitude of that country's people and government and 3) make (sometimes incredibly) broad generalisations about the uniformity of thought towards China from the outside (for example the the bogeyman of the "western media" is often cited as a single entity out "to get" China). Having said that, once you get past the initial reactionary attitude of a lot of people, you can have quite interesting conversations, and occasionally hear very fresh viewpoints. Great article, it is indeed important not to all of a sudden change our attitudes because an authoritarian government wants to whip up support back home!
nick of Dundas 11:00am April 07, 2009
Yes, China is ruled by a authoritarian government. Western nations are not. But almost equivalently, western countries are ruled by a class of super rich people who exploit middle class and working class from every aspect of their daily life. This current economy crisis is a clear evidence of such ruling. Can people living in western countries do something (like changing the rules of how super rich class play)? Very hard. A simple step, like restriction on how top managements are paid, is very hard to achieve. Let alone changing the game that super rich class has played for tens of years. Yes, Chinese education system is "brain washing" their people. So is the western media. Absolute "neutral" media do not exist. Majority of people living in western world consume the product of the same media company for tens of years. Do they really have a choice? China is under a deep change (although it is a slow change and not a revolution - thank god!) Believe it or not, China is going towards a democratic country through the interaction between its people and the government. Maybe one day, it will become more democratic than western countries. Yes, vote is a fantastic and extremely important human right. But look, here in Australia, for tens of years people have kept and re-elected the same type of parties, same group of politicians. It appears to me, the current democratic system in western countries, is rather a bit superficial.
Yiping Bai of Sydney 10:55am April 07, 2009
Hi Rowan, Thanks for your honesty and your candid editor on the Chinese issue. I was an international student studying in this great country and now lead a life in Sydney. And I agree with you that racism is a tiny issue in Australia and most people here are friendly. That is why many overseas people coming to Australia, and many 0f them chosed to stay here or want to stay here. As a Chinese person, I know that China is a great country and it will be greater if there is no political crisis in the future. But because of the histry, China is now still a developing country and many issues need to be changed and improved. From my personal perspective, we Chinese people, should handle the criticism appropriately. If we do not analyse the criticism, but just be angery with these criticism, a greater China will never happen. The good thing is Chinese people are eager to learn, that is why so many Chinese students study overseas. Even we are still stuburn in some ways, but with the honest communication, this will be changed. Thanks again for your honesty and candid comments. Best regards, Yiping Bai
Sir Timothy 10:38am April 07, 2009
Rowan that is an excellent article, a piece of sober, balanced analysis that i think this country needs. Well done!
Bulldust of Perth 10:20am April 07, 2009
Australia has to decide if it wants to take the red pill or the blue one... in one scenario we accept the way China wishes to present itself (a carefully crafted matrix to control perception), and in the other we face reality, warts and all. The real question is whether those inside the "matrix" are willing to set their minds free or whether they have become too institutionalised (borrwoing a little Shawshank on the side). At the end of the day, every society has its carefully crafted matrix... we are no different. |
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