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[公知观察] 谁来考证一下朝鲜队输球要挖煤的来源?

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发表于 2010-6-17 07:18 | 显示全部楼层
这里面恐怕也有朝鲜自身的问题。长期以来,朝鲜自己媒体太少,能够合法进入朝鲜的国际媒体屈指可数。那些媒体不能合法拍摄,就会慢慢扭曲对朝鲜的观感,进而大量引用一些不靠谱的消息。比如,某个北逃的高官,某个北逃的最高领导人的厨师,某个北逃的教练……这些消息,只要朝鲜一天不像中国一样开放,就一天无法验证。

更为可怕的是,这么多谣言出来后,朝鲜方面竟然没有民众抗议。

像之前google earth大量的暴露了朝鲜的国家机密,从核设施到官邸的跑车车队,被全世界的人一览无余。咱们国内对google抗议过许多次,所以许多机密设施被从google earth上隐去,或调低了分辨率。其他许多国家也是类似。可朝鲜人民竟然容忍到现在,真是让人怒其不争。
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发表于 2010-6-17 07:21 | 显示全部楼层
综上,我认为一方面朝鲜人民根本在乎这些谣言。不像韩国,出了几条谣言就由外交人员出面辟谣。

另一方面,只有当朝鲜像中国一样改革开放,才能从根本上遏制这些谣言。至少,他们能建个anti-meiguo.com
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发表于 2010-6-17 07:33 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 fukgm 于 2010-6-17 07:39 编辑
这里面恐怕也有朝鲜自身的问题。长期以来,朝鲜自己媒体太少,能够合法进入朝鲜的国际媒体屈指可数。那些媒 ...
爱国全无敌 发表于 2010-6-17 07:18



    "能够合法进入朝鲜的国际媒体屈指可数。那些媒体不能合法拍摄,就会慢慢扭曲对朝鲜的观感,进而大量引用一些不靠谱的消息。"



"3.14" "7.5" "5.12" "anti-cnn???"

"这里面恐怕也有朝鲜自身?!的问题。"
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发表于 2010-6-17 09:10 | 显示全部楼层
我们都知道是假的,还是会拿这个说说笑话了。
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发表于 2010-6-17 09:28 | 显示全部楼层
玩笑话吧!谁又把他当真了,朝鲜队踢得不错!
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发表于 2010-6-17 09:47 | 显示全部楼层
ls的别说朝鲜的责任,中国够开放了吧,人家照样当着你的面造你的谣,你怎么办?
对西方人来说,非我族类,其心必异,不编排你,才怪呢,你开不开放,我都不管,反正造谣理由就是谁要你不开放(朝鲜)或者开放得不够呢(中国)。
别说朝鲜了,中国做梦都想有世界级媒体,能发出自己的声音,不过是做梦而已。
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发表于 2010-6-17 11:10 | 显示全部楼层
我们都知道是假的,还是会拿这个说说笑话了。
驽马不舍 发表于 2010-6-17 09:10


这倒未必,有些人拿这个挖煤作论据还是很兴奋的。
伊拉克枪毙,朝鲜挖煤,都习惯成自然了。
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发表于 2010-6-17 12:07 | 显示全部楼层
好帖要顶
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发表于 2010-6-17 14:19 | 显示全部楼层
http://bbs.m4.cn/thread-248925-1-1.html


飞扬的打脸和考证贴,我刚发过来,可惜沉底了
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发表于 2010-6-17 14:21 | 显示全部楼层
飞扬FIA考证认为很有可能是老米一些博客网站造谣~~~~这次,AC落后啦
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发表于 2010-6-17 14:34 | 显示全部楼层
以下为飞扬情报部内参:

Feiyang Intelligence Agency,飞扬情报局,是一个以飞扬部分核心会员为主的独立情报收集和分析组织,于2004年成立。我们在遵守中华人民共和国国家法规的前提下,主要进行以下三方面的工作:

1,所有公开渠道的情报收集,包括报纸杂志等平媒与其他媒体上的情报搜集,或者从各种展会,活动中搜集第一手资料。
2,情报处理与分析。包括对时下热点新闻进行分析,追查源头,粉碎谣言;或者是提炼出有价值的信息,正明视听。
3,情报鉴定,调集FIA广大的社会力量,对于最终结果进行定性,并写出完整的分析报告。

FIA在世界各地均有情报站,每个情报站都能独立完成上述三条工作。我们仅仅凭着自己的热情在做这些事情,因为我们信仰科学和理性,反对主观臆断和横加意识形态。我们是飞扬军事的核心力量,我们隐迹于茫茫人海,我们无处不在,我们变化莫测,我们用智慧,用青春,用热血来谱写一曲心中的梦想,为了五星红旗能永远的飘扬!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2010年6月15日凌晨,对“朝鲜队输球就会被送去煤矿”这一突然间蹿红的消息进行来源跟踪。
发起人:绵阳站  蔚蓝天空
情报搜集与初步分析:欧中站 深蓝马桶
技术与语言支持:北美站 dogflying
情报鉴定:美东站 手术刀
          欧中站 深蓝马桶

鉴于国内媒体在一夜之间突然开始疯传“朝鲜队输球会被送去煤矿”这一消息,FIA认为其活动模式符合某敌对势力政治宣传手法。基于此,FIA上述工作站对消息来源进行了一番追踪。

首先我们搜集了各网站对这条新闻的引用情况:
新浪网:http://finance.sina.com.cn/roll/20100615/10573355688.shtml
引用自深圳晚报

搜狐:
http://q.sohu.com/forum/20/topic/49043976
引用自体坛网

国际在线:
http://taobao.cri.cn/20864/2010/06/12/1945s2885363.htm
引用自东南快报


在对以上三条报道进行了关键字搜索和排查后,所有的线索都指向一个叫体坛网的网站,其报导如下:
http://soccer.titan24.com/2010/2010-06-13/76100.html

这篇文章编辑署名青枫。其写作手段符合混淆视听的宣传手法:首先引用法新社对“韩国停播免费电视信号”的报道,造成一种“整篇报道均为法新社消息”的错觉。经过FIA法国组查证,法新社没有报道过“朝鲜队员输球后会被送去煤矿”的报道。
基于此,基本可以定性整篇报道是体坛网一名编辑捏造的。但基于小心求证的原则,FIA欧中站翻阅了大量搜索结果,终于找到了一个可以推翻上述结论的网站:
中国时刻报导:
http://www.s1979.com/a/news/world/2010/0612/42513.shtml



这篇报道提供了一个新的线索,并指向了所谓的“美国媒体”。FIA欧中站对此报导中提供的“美国媒体报导”截图中的关键字进行了搜索。

关键字排列1,Moon Ki-nam
百度,查无此人,谷歌香港,查无此人。
关键词排列2,Moon Ki Nam
百度,查无此人,谷歌香港,查无此人。
关键词排列3,Moon Ki Nam COACH
谷歌德国,查无此人
谷歌美国,找到线索如下:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Ki-Han
维基百科记载了一名叫Moon Ki-han的足球教练。起初怀疑Moon ki-nam就是这个名字的错写版本。根据维基百科,这名足球教练就职于首尔足球俱乐部。
那么是否可以说,“美国媒体”关于“挖煤”的报道,属于借用了这个韩国教练的名义伪造的呢?FIA基于科学和理性的原则,没有妄下结论。我们需要寻找推翻这个结论的线索。
于是FIA欧中站在更早前的搜索信息中继续排查。惊讶地发现美国媒体确实有关于MOON KI Nam教练关于“挖煤”的叙述。但这些报道都在一些个人博客和花边小站上,比如:
http://www.dailychilli.com/sport ... terious-north-korea
http://www.statesman.com/sports/ ... s-under-737973.html
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Warm/3151073/story.html
http://www.aminutenews.com/world ... cret-weapon-ap.html
以上引用文章的特点是:内容几乎完全相同,但题目均不同,署名作者也各不同,宣称版权或引用的也不同。更重要的是,所有文章都集中出现在6月10日凌晨到上午的一段时间。

基于以上要素,FIA一号首长铁背心认为:符合政治宣传文统一口径的特征,但不能确认。于是欧中站继续对搜索结果进行排查,有了新的发现:
著名电视台NBC的引用页面:
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37609538
这条报道很明确地给出了消息来源:Associated Press Sports,记者:Jean H. Lee
  根据这个线索,FIA欧中站对谷歌美国的搜索结果添加了关键字后进行了新一轮整理。结果是:对这篇报导,但凡是注明了引用的,大多源头指向Associated Press Sports。

但根据Associated Press Sports+ Jean H. Lee的搜索,我们只找到了这篇东西:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/sto ... mp;TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
与被引用文章几乎毫无关系。

继续搜索关于MOON KI NAN教练的信息,最终找到了这样一篇报道,来自NKDAILY:
http://www.dailynk.com/english/r ... k00400&num=2707
从中可以得到MOON KI NAM的一些信息:
文基男(音译),前朝鲜国家足球队教练,2004年解雇,疑似逃亡,后在韩国蔚山大学任教。
拥有这样一个背景的人,说出“挖煤”的话,也不奇怪了。更何况没有确实的证据证明文教练说过那番言论。
-----------------------------------------------------
根据国内其他网站16日疯传“挖煤文出自费城体育”的消息,FIA美东站进行了搜集整理,最终只找到了这样一篇东西:
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/mer ... ews.aspx?id=4313328
其中根本没提挖煤和MOON KI NAM教练的事情。

对于《费城体育》,FIA美东站的鉴定是:

“在费城多年,从来没听说过这么一家媒体。
费城播放新闻的电视台如下

KYW Channel 3 (CBS)

WPVI Channel 6 (ABC)

WCAU Channel 10 (NBC)

WHYY Channel 12 (PBS)

WPHL Channel 17 (WB)

WNJS Channel 23 (PBS)

WTXF Channel 29 (Fox)

WPSG Channel 57 (UPN)

费城播放新闻的电台 FM 如下

WXPN 88.5 (UPENN)

WDNR 89.5 ( WIDENER UNIVERSITY )

WHYY 90.9 (PBS)

WSRN 91.5 (SWARTMORE COLLEGE)

费城体育新闻,算是权威的电台 AM 是 WIP 610AM  (没说过所谓的北朝教练)

其他AM电台 90%是天主教办的,传教和宗教新闻+社区宗教动态。“


事件鉴定:对于“朝鲜队输球会被送去挖煤”这一消息,基本可以定性为:美国各博客和小网站同时发表的一篇疑似有政治宣传背景的文章。其消息源头指向美联社,但美联社上找不到相关文章。线索自此中断。
此文章经国内某些别有用心的人放大和改写之后,通过公众的猎奇心理进行传播,达到歪曲事实,丑化朝鲜政府的目的。这一套方法和60~70年代西方媒体针对中国的宣传手法极其相似。
比如:脱北前任足球教练,在国内某些媒体的添油加醋下居然变成了“现役国家一级教练”,这是利用了“三人成虎”式的传播效应和公众的阴暗心理。
对于这条消息本身,FIA有爱看足球的成员这样说:“朝鲜队员有不少是国外联赛效力的 ,你让他挖煤炭了,别人不找你问合同?朝鲜队失利不是一次两次了,当年亚洲杯失利也没见谁挖煤炭去——而且是输给韩国。”


自此,追查宣告结束。本报告旨在破除以讹传讹的谣言,不针对任何国家,组织,团体和个人。

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发表于 2010-6-17 15:47 | 显示全部楼层
回复 31# st_aster


    这样的搜索过程看起来很过瘾啊~哈哈
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发表于 2010-6-17 15:57 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 fukgm 于 2010-6-17 16:50 编辑
飞扬FIA考证认为很有可能是老米一些博客网站造谣~~~~这次,AC落后啦
左边的门牙 发表于 2010-6-17 14:21



    I've told you guys about this article which was made by Associated Press at lv21, and sent the links of it
(http://bbs.m4.cn/thread-248858-1-1.html) http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SOC_WCUP_UNPREDICTABLE_NORTH_KOREANS?SITE=SCCOL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT.
I totally got lost of the way you were talking about FIA(wtf is that?), sigh.  
sa korea ap001.png 02.png 03.png 04.png 05.png 006.png



Here's the whole Report!

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h_ZD7STnGlc56plIdw7OIe2EvS-wD9G8ERJ00
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SOC_WCUP_UNPREDICTABLE_NORTH_KOREANS?SITE=SCCOL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

From left, North Korea's Ri Kwang Hyok, Jong Tae Se and Kim Kum Il challenge for the ball during a team training session in Tembisa near Johannesburg, South Africa, Tuesday June 8, 2010. North Korea are preparing for the upcoming soccer World Cup, where they will play in Group G. (AP Photo/Frank Augstein)


Jun 10, 9:51 AM EDT

By JEAN H. LEE

Associated Press Writer




JOHANNESBURG — A week after arriving for the World Cup, the North Korean team remains largely hidden from public view, sequestered behind the tightly guarded gates of a remote hotel in northern Johannesburg that seems to rise like a fortress from the South African veld.

No chance of a casual South African braai — barbecue — with fellow hotel guests: All meals, prepared by a cook flown in from Pyongyang, are closed to outsiders. And no chance for the players to stray from the group.

No team at the tournament is more of a mystery than North Korea, one of the world's most isolated countries.

They're the lowest ranked of the qualifiers and are in the toughest group.

But North Korea has a history of surprising top teams at the World Cup: In 1966, the last time it qualified, the squad from the reclusive communist state produced a stunning upset win over Italy to secure a quarterfinal spot.

Nearly as unknown as they were 44 years ago, the North Koreans are banking on what may be their greatest asset as they prepare to face Brazil in their opening match: their unpredictability.

Most training sessions at Maphulong Stadium in the township of Tembisa have been closed, and coach Kim Jong Hun made only Japanese-born star Jong Tae Se available Wednesday for a news conference required by FIFA, soccer's governing body.

A cloud of controversy surrounding the North Koreans may give Kim an excuse to keep the team from prying journalists' eyes. And he may well want to keep the players under wraps and use the relative anonymity to the team's tactical advantage.

Only three play overseas and the team has made few international appearances in recent years, giving opponents little chance to study strengths and weaknesses.

In a sport where fans follow their favorite players' every move, the North Koreans' names are so unfamiliar that almost no one noticed that coach Kim listed a top striker as a goalkeeper when he submitted his final World Cup squad.

Greece got a taste of North Korea's surprise tactics in a friendly late last month in Austria. After floundering at the start, North Korea took control of the game, eventually equalizing to hold Greece to an unexpected 2-2 draw.

The North Koreans may have been the darlings in '66, the underdogs from a little-known country who delighted their English hosts by staging feisty upsets to become the first Asian team to make the World cup quarterfinals. Four decades later, however, the world is well aware of North Korea, its nuclear ambitions and the accusations that Pyongyang sank a South Korean warship in March — a matter taken to the U.N. Security Council last week amid a firestorm of threatening rhetoric from both Koreas.

Behind the wall of silence, the Chollima squad — as they are called back home after a winged horse prized in North Korean mythology — is mentally girding itself for the tournament, said Jong, the charismatic 26-year-old striker who is one of two Japanese-born players in the squad and has emerged as the team's star player and de facto spokesman.

Experts and oddmakers say it would take a miracle for North Korea to advance from Group G — which includes Brazil, Portugal and Ivory Coast — to the round of 16.

That doesn't phase Jong, nicknamed "the People's Rooney" by South Korean media, who says the North Koreans will make up for what they lack in experience with passion, will and determination when they face Brazil on Tuesday at Ellis Park in Johannesburg.

"Our advantage is that we have first-world mentality. We have confidence in our concentration and speed," he told broadcaster APTN on Wednesday. "If we believe in our strength and unite as one, and believe in ourselves, we could surely achieve victory."

He vowed to "surprise" the world again.

The team prides itself on its unity, and with most of the squad playing in the domestic competition, they've had plenty of time to finesse their teamwork.

"Morale is very high and we're ready to fight," Coach Kim said, according to footage aired on North Korean state television.

Goalkeeper Ri Myong Guk is just as confident.

"Like the football players of Chollima Korea in 1966, I will also display the might of North Korea's 'army first' policy in the World Cup," Ri told APTN.

North Korea, its economy in shambles and its circle of friends diminishing due to its nuclear defiance, has few avenues for international glory.

The 23 men training in Tembisa are their country's most visible ambassadors, among the few North Koreans allowed to travel overseas.

At home, they're already heroes, bestowed with medals and merit citations and honored on postage stamps unveiled last week to commemorate the team's success in qualifying for the World Cup.

With that honor comes pressure. Moon Ki-nam, a former national-level North Korea coach who defected to South Korea in 2004, said players are handsomely rewarded with coveted apartments if they win internationally but are punished, some sent to coal mines, if they lose.

Even some of the feted players from the 1966 team were said to have been sent to one of North Korea's infamous labor camps for squandering a promising 3-0 lead to lose to a Eusebio-led Portugal in the quarterfinals.

And with North Korean leader Kim Jong Il personally giving the current team guidance, according to state media, success or failure is a state matter of the highest order.

"We will achieve a good success in this World Cup, therefore giving pleasure to our great General (Kim Jong Il) and proving ourselves worthy of the expectations of the Korean people," the coach told APTN as the team departed Pyongyang last month to the cheers and applause of well-wishers.

Kim has been a keen soccer fan for decades. According to Moon, the ex-coach-turned-defector, Kim used the surprise success of the 1966 team to his political advantage as he prepared to take over leadership of North Korea from his father, Kim Il Sung.

It may take another shock upset for North Korea to match the feats of the 1966 team, but at least one former soccer star doesn't think it will take a miracle.

Pak Doo Ik, who scored the magic goal that vaulted the North Korean team past Italy, says the players are skilled, organized and above all, confident.

"Seeing the soccer players training and competing in the qualifiers, they surely can make it," he told APTN.  " Playing the game with such confidence, we can surely make it."


© 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.


shen me FIA? zhe me ming xian de ban quan sheng ming dou shi er bu jian, zhe qun ren shi chi gan fan de ma?
什么FIA飞扬情报局? 连最基本的版权声明都会漏掉,难道除了故弄玄虚就没别的料了?广告帖还是少发,最讨厌这种比来比去的口气
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 楼主| 发表于 2010-6-17 16:41 | 显示全部楼层
飞扬FIA考证认为很有可能是老米一些博客网站造谣~~~~这次,AC落后啦
左边的门牙 发表于 2010-6-17 14:21


飞扬考证很用心,可惜结论错误了。
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发表于 2010-6-17 16:55 | 显示全部楼层
现在讨饭的都不直接要饭了,都喜欢穿一袭道袍或袈裟,扮作高人,美其名曰:这不叫讨饭,这叫化缘。

做事要对事不对人,不要这么明显地显摆,好勇斗狠不应该是你们干的,更不应该自己人对自己人。

FIA好好搞好你自己就行了,不要来此化缘,我们也是僧多粥少。
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发表于 2010-6-17 17:28 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 st_aster 于 2010-6-17 17:49 编辑
I've told you guys about this article which was made by Associated Press at lv21, and sent th ...
fukgm 发表于 2010-6-17 15:57



    全文转载而已,我转载文章通常都是这样完整的转载……貌似我也曾经转过你发在编译区的文章,你希望我对你的文章来个拦头截尾吗?多多体谅下好吗
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发表于 2010-6-17 17:52 | 显示全部楼层
回复 33# fukgm


    我不过就是转载了人家飞扬的帖子,出于尊重全文转载,犯得着这样夹枪带棍的吗?!


作为ACER看到人家先出来帖子,难道推荐阅读一下都不行吗?难道说句调侃的话都不行吗?

飞扬哪里做的不完善你能耐就出完整版的,大家相互促进,犯得着就好像谁抢了谁风头似的?

这都什么心态!

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发表于 2010-6-17 17:56 | 显示全部楼层
上面的发言真让人心寒~~~
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发表于 2010-6-17 18:03 | 显示全部楼层
回复  fukgm


    我不过就是转载了人家飞扬的帖子,出于尊重全文转载,犯得着这样夹枪带棍的吗?!


作 ...
大门牙 发表于 2010-6-17 17:52



    "我不过就是转载了人家飞扬的帖子,出于尊重全文转载,犯得着这样夹枪带棍的吗?!"

ma jia????????
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发表于 2010-6-17 18:04 | 显示全部楼层
回复 1# 空气稀薄


    除了这种谣言,还有各种 传说,说郑大世 喜欢 开悍马 玩psp,但来源都很可疑,一般人如我,也就看过,将信将疑、倾向捏造的飘过就算了,如果楼主,有兴趣,不如了解下,网络上关于 朝鲜、韩国的谣言还有哪些。
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