post by 可科特Xeno / 2010-12-10 20:52 Friday / /
【原文标题】： China has 'no morals' in Africa: US leak
【英文原贴地址】： http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=247934 【发布日期】： Dec 09, 2010
【翻译截止日期】： Dec 10 2010 【翻译评论数 / 总评论数】： 18/18 China has 'no morals' in Africa : US leak Agence France-Presse in Beijng 1:22pm, Dec 09, 2010 Email to friend Print a copy Bookmark and Share The United States thinks China is a "pernicious economic competitor with no morals" whose booming investments in Africa are propping up unsavoury regimes, according to a leaked diplomatic cable. The frank assessment by the US assistant secretary of state for African affairs, Johnnie Carson, was among the latest revelations in thousands of documents released by whistleblower website WikiLeaks. “ China is a very aggressive and pernicious economic competitor with no morals. China is not in Africa for altruistic reasons,” Carson said in a February meeting with oil executives in Nigeria . “ China is in Africa for China primarily,” he said, according to a confidential February 23 cable written by the US consul-general in Lagos. Carson said another reason was to “secure votes in the United Nations from African countries” to forward China ’s own aims, and also to depress diplomatic support for its rival Taiwan . Beijing had pumped a total of US$9.3 billion into Africa by the end of last year, according to the China-Africa Trade and Economic Relationship Annual Report this year, launched in October by a government-linked research institute. Investment in the continent reached US$1.44 billion last year alone, compared with US$220 million in 2000, the report said, reflecting China ’s growing interest in Africa ’s resources to fuel its fast-growing economy. China has been criticised by the West for its support of hardline leaders such as Sudan ’s Omar al-Bashir and Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe , but many African leaders praise Beijing for not preaching to them over human rights. “ The United States will continue to push democracy and capitalism while Chinese authoritarian capitalism is politically challenging,” Carson said. Beijing pursues a “contrarian” approach by dealing with the “Mugabes and Bashirs of the world”, he said. Carson said the United States had “trip wires” in terms of China ’s presence in Africa . “ Is China developing a blue-water navy? Have they signed military base agreements? Are they training armies? Have they developed intelligence operations?” he said. “ Once these areas start developing, then the United States will start worrying,” he said, though noting for the time being, Washington did not perceive China as a “military, security or intelligence threat”. This post has been edited by Mid-Night_Sun: Yesterday, 01:01 PM 中国在非洲“没有道德”： WIKI 解密 美国认为中国是一个“没有道德的恶意竞争者”，其勃发的投资撑起了非洲的一些邪恶政权。 根据最近 WIKI 解密泄露的近千份文件显示，这个坦率的评论来自美国非洲事物特使，强尼 - 卡孙。 “中国是一个非常具有侵略性和恶意的经济竞争者，毫无道德。中国来到非洲，其目的并非无私。”二月份，卡孙与尼日利亚石油官员会晤时谈到。 根据拉哥斯的美国领事在 2 月 23 日 的密报记录，卡孙说道：“中国是为了自身（利益）才来到非洲的。” 卡孙谈到了另一个理由是：为了自己的目的，中国（需要挟持）“非洲在联合国安理会的投票”，同时在外交上打压其对手台湾。 根据有官方背景的研究所发布的中非经济关系年度报道，截止去年年底，北京在非洲总共投资了 93 亿美元。 该报告写到，为了给（中国）国内的飞速发展提供资源，中国对非洲投资正在（快速）增长中；（在此前提下，）相较于 2000 年的 2.2 亿元，去年一年（中国）对非洲的投资达到了 14.4 亿。 西方批评中国支持非洲的独裁者，诸如苏丹的奥马尔 - 巴塞尔和津巴布韦的罗伯特 - 穆加贝，但是非洲的政治领袖们却赞赏北京的不批判（合作伙伴）人权状况的做法。 “美国将继续民主和资本主义的推广，但中国的国家资本主义在政治上却是个挑战”卡孙说。 北京正在通过和“穆加贝和巴塞尔之流”合作的方式追逐（与美国）相反的目标，他说。 卡孙把中国在非洲的存在形容为美国的绊脚石。 （埃里克同学， THX ！） “中国计划发展蓝水海军吗？他们是否签署了（租借）军事基地的协议？中国有没有给他们提供军事训练？他们是否有情报方面的合作？”他说。 “一旦这些领域开始发展，美国就该担心了。”他说，尽管当前这些事情没有发生，华盛顿并不把中国视为“军事，安全和情报上的威胁”。 UnZipped Find Member's Posts
Yesterday, 01:16 PM Post #2
roll eyes... Its simply laughable! the words 'morals' and the 'US ' simply dont gel, sorry.
我眼球蹦出来了…… 真实好笑呢！“美国”和“道德”这两个此根本就没一点关系，遗憾啊。 yiming2000
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Yesterday, 01:32 PM Post #3
Why did you say that? If you have a sound argument, let's hear it.
LS 何出此言？有什么高见就说出来大伙儿听听吧。 qwerty2010
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Yesterday, 01:52 PM Post #4
I think I am coming round to the point of view that Wikileaks is NOT a Mossad operation, but genuine. It is the controlled mass media who are selective in what they decide to publish to spin it to their advantage, but the "dirt" is there.
Free Assange!
OTOH, the moral superiority of the West, especially the CIA and Mossad, can be discerned in brutal and barbaric African colonization of hundreds of years, killing and mutilating Africans in the millions (Google "Leopold Africa"),
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_II_of_Belgium
"adventures" such as the US-Belgium assassination of democratically elected populist leaders like Patrice Lumumba and now their subversion of independent regimes, eg. Mugabe for confiscating the farms of white farmers and redistributing them, not that Mugabe is right, but the Zimbabwe hyperinflation was a Western gambit. From this link: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=22214 QUOTE "What really happened in Zimbabwe ? And why does QE2 seem to be making the dollar stronger rather than weaker, as the inflationistas predicted? Anatomy of a Hyperinflation Professor Michael Hudson has studied hyperinflation extensively. He maintains that “every hyperinflation in history stems from the foreign exchange markets. It stems from governments trying to throw enough of their currency on the market to pay their foreign debts.” It is in the foreign exchange markets that a national currency becomes vulnerable to manipulation by speculators. The Zimbabwe economic crisis dated back to 2001, when the government defaulted on its loans and the IMF refused to make the usual accommodations, including refinancing and loan forgiveness. Zimbabwe ’s credit was ruined and it could not get loans elsewhere, so the government resorted to issuing its own national currency and using the money to buy U.S. dollars on the foreign exchange market. These dollars were then used to pay the IMF and regain the country’s credit rating. According to a statement by the Zimbabwe central bank, the hyperinflation was caused by speculators who charg ， d exorbitant rates for U.S. dollars, causing a drastic devaluation of the Zimbabwe currency. But something darker seems also to have been going on. Timothy Kalyegira, a columnist with the Daily Monitor of Uganda, wrote in a 2007 article: Most observers and the general public believe Zimbabwe ’s economic crisis was brought about by Mugabe’s decision to seize white-owned commercial farms in 2000. That might well be true. But how about another, much more sinister element . . . sabotage? Kalyegira asked how a government “with the same tyrant called Mugabe as president, the same corruption, and same mismanagement, kept inflation down to single digit figures [before 2000], but after 2000, the same leader, government, and fiscal policies suddenly become so hopelessly incompetent that inflation is at the latest reported to be over 500,000 percent?” Canadian commentator Stephen Gowans calls it “warfare by other means.” Devaluing the enemy’s currency has been used as a war tactic historically. It was used by Napoleon against the Russians and by the British against the American colonists. In 1992, financier George Soros showed how it was done, when his hedge fund virtually single-handedly brought down the British pound. His fund sold short more than $10 billion worth of pounds, forcing the Bank of England to devalue the currency, earning Soros an estimated $1.1 billion and the title "the man who broke the Bank of England." In 1997, the UK Treasury estimated the cost at 3.4 billion pounds." And from : http://www.africanexecutive.com/modules/ma...mp;magazine=184 QUOTE "As I asked in April, why is it that the ZANY-PF government, with the same tyrant called Mugabe as president, the same corruption, and same mismanagement kept inflation down to single digit figures, but after 2000, the same leader, government, and fiscal policies suddenly become so hopelessly incompetent that inflation is at the latest reported to be over 500,000 percent? Zimbabwe --- as viewed through western media --- is the story of a country that was once Africa ’s breadbasket and one of the most prosperous nations but which under the tyrannical rule of Robert Mugabe has now sunk into a basket case and human rights abuses, economic collapse, and corruption have eclipsed all previous world records....." War by Other Means: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...=va&aid=137 QUOTE "So it is that when it came to Zimbabwe, the Western media did what it always does, and what it must do - limn the world in ways that mesh with the economic and financial interests of the ruling classes in New York, London and the West's other financial centers, which after all, are the owners of the West's corporate media. Hence, Mugabe was portrayed as a brutal tyrant who had to go. Unmentioned was that his exit would clear the way for the implementation of an economic program by the Western-backed opposition that would benefit the very same class of investors and corporate shareholders, and would be far more pleasing to this absentee financial oligarchy than Mugabe's balking at IMF demands and committing lese majesty in expropriating private property, and what's more, doing it without compensation." http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=5242 In contrast to all this, China 's investments into Africa , building infrastructure, hospitals, factories, etc., in exchange for resources with no political strings attached, is positively "evil"!
我越来越相信 WIKI 解密是真正的尊重实事而不是个摩萨德诡计了。它不过是一个根据自己的利益（而不是某个政府的意志）来决定解密哪些东西的大众媒体，如果一定要说“肮脏”的话，这（指其盈利性）就是其唯一可被指摘的地方了。 释放阿桑奇！ 呵呵，西方，特别是 CIA 和摩萨德的道德优越感能从他们对非洲百多年的残酷野蛮的殖民史窥见一斑，其时，有百万计的土著被屠杀和贩卖。（放狗搜“ Leopold Africa ”就知道了） http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_II_of_Belgium 美国 - 比利时暗杀民选平民领袖如 Patrice Lumumba 的所谓“冒险”。 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrice_Lumumba 现在他们有颠覆独立政权，例如没收白人的农场再重新分配给他们的穆加贝，不是说穆加贝做的是对的，但津巴布韦的通胀危机是西方的阴谋，围观如下链接： http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=22214 引用： “津巴布韦到底发生了什么？为什么第二轮量化宽松政策把美元变得看起来更强势了，而不是弱势了，因为预期中必然发生的通胀吗？” 仔细分析一次通胀危机 米歇尔 - 哈德森教授广泛的研究了通胀危机，他主张：“所有的通胀危机都是始于外汇市场，由于政府必须偿还外债不得不在国内市场投入超量本币。”那么在外汇市场上对于国际投机商而言，本币就变得过于脆弱。 津巴布韦的经济危机始于 2001 年，当时津当局没能按时偿还到期国债，而 IMF 拒绝提供（按惯例可以提供的）短期解决方案，包括募集新债偿还旧债和债务减免等要求。其信用等级被减低以至于该国无法从任何地方贷到新债，结果津政府只能滥发本币来在外汇市场是购买美元。这些美元将用来偿还 IMF 的债务和挽救国家的财政信用。根据津央行的声明，危机是由于投机商过度调高美元对津巴布韦货币的汇率导致津货币严重贬值引起的。 （非洲人的智商真让我寒，翻到这里 LZ 我不得不跳出来吐槽一个……） 但是更糟糕的事情还将继续发生。《乌干达每日观察》专栏作者 Timothy Kalyegira 在 2007 年的文章中写到： 大部分观察家和公众都认为，津巴布韦的经济危机始于穆加贝 2000 年没收白人农场的举措，这可能是对的。但是，另一方面呢？是不是存在其他的重大因素呢，比如阴谋和暗害？
Kalyegira 质疑到，为什么同一个政府“在 2000 年以前，有着同样的暴君穆加贝，当然，当时叫“总统穆加贝”，有着同样的腐败，和同样的玩忽职守罪，能够吧通胀控制在个位数，但是一过 2000 年，同样的元首，政府和经济政策就突然变得毫无希望和对据报道高达 500000% 的通胀无能为力了呢？”
使敌国的货币贬值过去被用作战争策略，加拿大评论家 Stephen Gowans 称其为“另一种战争形式”。它被拿破仑用来对付沙俄，英帝国对付北美殖民地。 1992 年，乔治索罗斯通过对冲基金单枪匹马做空英镑展示了它（金融战争）的运作方式，他的基金短期抛出价值 100 亿美元的英镑，强迫英格兰银行贬值了本币，估计索罗斯从中挣得 11 亿美元，并一举获得“击败英格兰银行的男人”的美誉。 1997 年，英国财政部估计英国损失了 34 亿英镑。 出处在此：
http://www.africanexecutive.com/modules/ma...mp;magazine=184
引用： “正如我八月份质疑的，为什么同一个政府“在 2000 年以前，有着同样的暴君穆加贝，当然，当时叫“总统穆加贝”，有着同样的腐败，和同样的玩忽职守罪，能够吧通胀控制在个位数，但是一过 2000 年，同样的元首，政府和经济政策就突然变得毫无希望和对据报道高达 500000% 的通常无能为力了呢？津巴布韦—从西方媒体的视角来看—是关于一个曾今是非洲粮仓和世界上最繁荣国家之一的国家在暴君穆加贝统治下如今变得战火不断，人权尽失，经济崩溃和腐败冠于全球……” 另一种战争： http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...=va&aid=137 引用： “一提到津巴布韦，西方媒体就老调重弹，他们也不得不这样做——遣词造句投居住在纽约、伦敦和西方其他经济中心的大佬们喜好，毕竟，他们才是西方媒体实事上的主子。因此，穆加贝被描绘成了大佬们所希望的那样的暴君。没有提及的是如果他被换下，将会给他在西方的反对者们让开财路，正是这些西方投资者和利益相关者会从中渔利，当肆意侵犯白人地主私人财产的穆加贝在 IMF 被拒，更高兴的是被剥夺地产的白人金融寡头。” （这一段有点意译，抱歉） http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=5242 对比西方人所为，中国的对非投资，建立了基础设施，医院，工厂等等，只是为了不带任何附加政治条件的交换资源，却被（西方）打上“邪恶”的标记！ Hugham
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Yesterday, 02:06 PM Post #5
Part of US demonizing propaganda. The beacon of hatred and racist.
这只是美国妖魔化宣传的一部分而已。撒播憎恨和种族主义的老调调。 Type98G Find Member's Posts
Yesterday, 02:20 PM Post #6
How ironic
真讽刺！ LiquidRoosevelt
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Yesterday, 03:27 PM Post #7
HAHAHAHA! As an American I literally laugh at this. Yes its true China may be profiting off war but we do the EXACT same thing. Hypocritical. Also a Chinese blue water navy isn't a threat to the American Navy, we have 11 Supercarriers(10 Nuclear) and the most technologically advanced fleet in history. Not to mention the fact that it is a larger force than the 13 next largest navies combined. If anyone should feel threatened it should be the rest of the world. Power Projection in Africa shouldn't be frowned upon; god forbid Africa gets some law and order. If the US isn't willing then, as an American and world citizen, I welcome China to take up the task. Hell the US and China should do it together.
哈哈，作为一个美国人我真的是被逗笑了。是的，中国可能确实从非洲的战乱中获利，但是美国不也是做着同样的事情吗？再，中国的蓝水海军不会是美国海军的威胁，我们有 11 艘超级航母（其中 10 艘核动力的）和史上最先进的舰队。更不用说美国海军军力比其后 13 名海军军力的总和还强。如果有国家能（对美国海军）产生威胁的话，那个国家必须达到除了美国外所有国家军力总和的程度。在非洲投放力量的行为不该被嗤之以鼻，上帝不会让非洲获得秩序和法律。如果美国不想淌这趟浑水，作为文明世界的公民，我欢迎中国来担起这个重担，或者美中联手来给非洲以秩序。 （哦，美国的 G2 支持者么？） foi2
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Yesterday, 03:34 PM Post #8
QUOTE (LiquidRoosevelt @ Dec 9 2010, 02:27 AM)
HAHAHAHA! As an American I literally laugh at this. Yes its true China may be profiting off war but we do the EXACT same thing. Hypocritical. Also a Chinese blue water navy isn't a threat to the American Navy, we have 11 Supercarriers(10 Nuclear) and the most technologically advanced fleet in history. Not to mention the fact that it is a larger force than the 13 next largest navies combined. If anyone should feel threatened it should be the rest of the world. Power Projection in Africa shouldn't be frowned upon; god forbid Africa gets some law and order. If the US isn't willing then, as an American and world citizen, I welcome China to take up the task. Hell the US and China should do it together. Lol, agreed. Pot, meet kettle. It's not like the US is a bastion of virtue in Africa and other parts of the world. The US is the only country to be constantly waging war somewhere for the past 50 years. Americans are the true warmongers in today's world.
引用： “哈哈，作为一个美国人我真的是被逗笑了。是的，中国可能确实从非洲的战乱中获利，但是美国不也是做着同样的事情吗？再，中国的蓝水海军不会是美国海军的威胁，我们有 11 艘超级航母（其中 10 艘核动力的）和史上最先进的舰队。更不用说美国海军军力比其后 13 名海军军力的总和还强。如果有国家能（对美国海军）产生威胁的话，那个国家必须达到除了美国外所有国家军力总和的程度。在非洲投放力量的行为不该被嗤之以鼻，上帝不会让非洲获得秩序和法律。如果美国不想淌这趟浑水，作为文明世界的公民，我欢迎中国来担起这个重担，或者美中联手来给非洲以秩序。” 大笑一个，赞！乌鸦不要笑猪黑。美国不是非洲或世界其他地方的道德标杆。美国是过去 50 年来唯一（与世界其他国家和地区）持续发生战争的国家，美国才是当今世界真正的战争贩子。 Chicom Find Member's Posts
Yesterday, 03:46 PM Post #9
QUOTE
Beijing had pumped a total of US$9.3 billion into Africa That money is best spent on our OWN people (fight poverty)
引用：
“北京在非洲总共投资了 93 亿美元。” 这些钱最好用在我们（中国）自己的人民身上（战胜贫穷）。 （这些钱也可以买 12 亿斤猪头肉，全国人民一人发一斤） UnZipped
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Yesterday, 04:00 PM Post #10
QUOTE (Chicom @ Dec 9 2010, 03:46 AM) That money is best spent on our OWN people (fight poverty) pumping money into other countries will bring back the rewards to your own. its like a cycle.
引用： “这些钱最好用在我们（中国）自己的人民身上（战胜贫穷）。” 投资他国会带来回报，再使自己的人民收益，这是一个上升螺旋。 MiddleKingdom1
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Today, 01:30 AM Post #11
African trade: China buys oil and minerals. US bought slaves. Morals? lol
非洲投资： 中国 = 买石油和矿石原料 美国 = 贩奴 道德？囧 Titanium
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Today, 01:55 AM Post #12
Even the most ardent China haters/US nuthuggers have to admit, this is amusingly hypocritical 即使是最坚定的反华者或（最忠诚的）美国的舔蛋者都必须承认：这真是一场有趣的通胀危机。 Lorax
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Today, 01:58 AM Post #13
The US and the west has destroyed Africa . Now Africans and Chinese are rebuilding it while the US continue to try and hinder that rebuilding process. They must be stopped.
美国和西方已经毁了非洲，现在非洲携手中国来重建这块苦难大陆，美国反而跳出来暗害重建进程。美国佬该住手了。 oGsInca
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Today, 04:28 AM Post #14
They suffer from intellectual myopia. Those U.S. diplomats are as bright as their secondary and primary students.
他们总是受没有远见之害，那些美国的外交官和其幕僚们“聪明”的像小学生一样。 （抱怨自己的官员真是世界人民喜闻乐见的业余活动啊……） LiquidRoosevelt
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Today, 05:12 AM Post #15
US diplomacy in Africa has been pretty much a total failure. Then again if you try to act like a bully every time someone doesn't listen to you in Africa you wont get very far. Maybe acting like we give a damn about its people and not its geopolitical structure and resources they wouldn't despise us.
美国的非洲外交已经彻底破产了。由于隔的太远，想要总是恐吓也不是次次都能奏效。也许我们不在乎他们的人民，仅仅关注于非洲的地缘政治结构和资源的做法导致了非洲对我们的厌恶。 ccL1
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Today, 05:38 AM Post #16
China has no morals?
LOL, is this for real? This is coming from the country (America ) that propped up brutal dictators and genocidal leaders like Mobutu Sese Seko, Jonas Savimbi, King Mohammed (Morocco ), Liamine Zéroual, and currently supports anti-freedom dictators/autocrats such as Mubarak, Zenawi, and Ben Ali.
中国没有道德？
哈哈，真的吗？这样的评价居然还是来自支持诸如 Mobutu Sese Seko, Jonas Savimbi, King Mohammed (Morocco), Liamine Z é roual, 以及最近的反自由主义的独裁者 Mubarak, Zenawi 和 Ben Ali 之流的残暴独裁者和种族灭绝者的国家？
MiddleKingdom1
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Today, 06:21 AM Post #17
AMERICA accuses China of having NO MORALS in Africa ? Didn't America 's mighty economic empire in the first 100 years of existence..... built on black slaves? Morals. lol Obama got the Peace Prize because of Western guilt about 'human rights' violations against BLACK PEOPLE. lol
美国指责中国在非洲无道？难道他们忘记了美国开国百年 的经济帝国是建立在黑奴的尸骨上的吗？ 道德，囧 奥巴马获得诺贝尔和平奖不过是西方强暴黑人人权过后所谓的救赎。 oGsInca
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Today, 10:42 AM Post #18
The West impoverishes the third-world, the East makes it prosper. This is the principle under which much of the third-world History was steered.
西方洗劫第三世界，东方重建它。这就是大多数第三世界国家发展史能归纳出的基本道理。 http://www.ptfcn.com/?post=325 | 
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发表于 2010-12-10 22:11
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