评论翻译:
nyanza
07 February 2011 5:35 PMLink to this comment
81
It's mentioned without a passing thought in the article, but the majority of the "Chinese" in the UK are actually Hong Kong Chinese, making them a select group - migrant selection usually skims off the best, and with Hong Kong being relatively small, that's a tight selection of a homogenous group. In 30 years time will the more recent and heterogenous "Chinese" group be doing as well at school? If not, the answer lies in HK, not China.
这篇文章想都没想就发表了这个观点,但是大部分在英国的“中国人”其实都是香港人,所以这些人都是比较出众的人——一般的移民团体都会在众多的移民中挑选出最好的来加入自己的团体,而由于香港相对来说比较小,所以这种香港人团体一般来说都比较小。在未来的30年内,那些最新的和由不同人员组成的“中国人”组织在学术上的表现可以和香港人一样好吗?如果不能的话,那么问题的答案就来自香港,而不是中国
Imageark
07 February 2011 5:58 PMLink to this comment
131
I remember last year watching a documentary on TV about one of the biggest slums in India. I recall the presenter was staying in the slum , with a family.
He did not enjoy the conditions one iota, nor would many of us.
The teenage daughter of the family he was staying with was acting as interpreter for him, and her english was really rather good.
What struck me was living amongst all the shit and EXTREME poverty, how this young lady managed to make herself presentable each day, dressed proudly in her school uniform and went of to school to learn.
I saw much the same story on another documentary about the Indian railways, where late middle aged woman carted tourists bags up a virtual cliff to the hotel from the railway station, in order to get the money to send her son to the best school in town.
Get me ?
Style of thing.
我记得去年在电视上看一个有关于印度最大的贫民窟的纪录片。我记得主持人要与一个家庭一起呆在贫民窟里。像我们中的大多数人一样,他很难安逸地呆在这样的环境中。这个家庭十几岁的女儿充当他们的临时翻译并且她的英文说得真的是相当棒。
让我震惊的是生活在这样一个满是屎堆和极度贫困的环境里,这位年轻的女士仍然每天都令自己看起来很得体,自豪地穿着她的学校制服去上学。
在另一个关于印度铁路的纪录片里我还看到了很多相同的故事。一个中年母亲在路边拉客,说服旅游者去住酒店,然后她从中赚取酬劳以送她的儿子去城里最好的学校读书。
明白么?都一样的事儿。
JohnGuildford
07 February 2011 7:05 PMLink to this comment
23
I believe that the training behind learning their difficult language helps them prepare them for further academic challenges by getting them in the right frame of mind. The same can be said for other rigourous languages such as Greek and its effect on Greek children and their parents.
我相信为了学习非常难的中文而作的训练帮助他们端正思想,应对以后在学业上的挑战。其他严谨的语言如希腊语对于希腊裔的父母和孩子来说也有相同的作用。
Lune13
07 February 2011 8:29 PMLink to this comment
44
Hong Kong Chinese have been assessed as having higher average IQ. In fact, the world's highest (107) in the survey below. China's is 100, same as the UK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations
An IQ of 107 puts you at about the top quartile in the UK, so you would expect these GCSE results assuming adequate parental attention (which they get apparently).
经过评估,香港华人拥有更高的智商。事实上,是世界最高的107,中国是100,与英国一样。请看以下调查的链接:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations
107是智商使得你处于英国最聪明的那四分之一人群之中,因此你也就可以自然而然期待这样的GCSE考试结果并承担父母适当的注意(对他们来说这很明显)。
jms98
07 February 2011 8:45 PMLink to this comment
165
Because they work hard and their families see the benefits of having a good education.
因为他们努力工作并且他们的家看到了良好的教育带来的好处。
Knightly
07 February 2011 8:49 PMLink to this comment
135
Strong supportive families who value education and have high expectations of their kids produce better results than the dysfunctional, poorly motivated majority - what a surprise!
充分证明了父母越重视教育,对子女有更高的期望会比起不正常的缺乏激励的大多数家庭能带来更好的结果。多么神奇!
narellle
07 February 2011 8:52 PMLink to this comment
60
@Lune13
oooh some IQ stats from Wikipedia - they MUST be true!
噢,一些来自维基百科的有关智商的统计——这一定是真的!
vercoda
07 February 2011 8:57 PMLink to this comment
182
I have no idea why; and I couldn't care to generalise in that way...
BUT!
Still, assuming that 100% unbalanced observations aren't going to land me in Tthe Guardian's Bad Science column, I can't help but notice that the Chinese children of an immigrant family opposite me play at home, safe and sound, on their balcony spacing, with either of their parents regularly popping out to see what they're up to.
Meanwhile, gangs of children of the same age (5 - 7) are regularly out on the streets here in Smithfield in Dublin city centre at night, with their parents/guardians obviously completely unconcerned about whatever these children are doing, or even where they are at 11pm or midnight, here in one of the city's many slum areas. (Answer: fecking stones at the passing Luas tram windows, or passersby, etc.)
我不知道为什么,我不在乎是否应该这样归纳(这种现象)。。。
但是!
100%偏颇的报道不会让我陷在Gardian的糟糕的科学栏里。我没办法,但是我发现我家对面那对华裔夫妇的孩子在自己家里玩。通常是在他们家的阳台上,与他的父亲或者母亲一起,按时出现在对面。
与此同时,一大帮与他年龄相仿的小孩子(5-7岁)则经常与他们的父母一起大晚上还出现在这里的史密斯菲尔德街,就在都柏林的市中心。他们的监护人显然一点都不关心自己的孩子干了些什么、他们夜里11点甚至是午夜又去了哪里,这儿可是这座城市为数众多的贫民地区之一呀!(回答:冲着往来的火车窗户或者行人扔石子,等等)
sitelab
07 February 2011 8:57 PMLink to this comment
24
Simple - strict parenting, limit distractions.
oh...and the occasional stick. (Joke :)
简单,严格的父母和很少分心。
噢,还有偶尔地棍棒教育。(开玩笑)
CyrusTheGreat600
07 February 2011 9:07 PMLink to this comment
17
China: easily the next superpower, a country that will project power on a worldwide scale for years to come. One note of interest is when quizzed a parent said that "Chinese parents invest everything into their children and don`t spend money going to the pub or going on holiday"
Now that`s what you call dedication! The British Empire, Soviet Union, United States and now China, they have the technological advancements, a growing army
etc etc.
中国:很容易就是下一个超级大国,很快,他们的力量将延升到全世界。有意思是的当询问一位家长时他说:中国的父母在他们的孩子身上投下所有,但就是不会花钱让他们去PUB或者度假。
这就是你们所谓的全情投入!大不列颠帝国、苏维埃、美利坚,现在轮到中国了。他们取得了技术进步,他们不断成长的军事力量,等等等等。
Children of the future Super State
King Cyrus
mrMadMen
07 February 2011 9:17 PMLink to this comment
13
I hate to break it to you but over the last 20 years there has been a lot of research into this. The research tends to focus on underachievement more (white working class boys, being the most frequently highlighted group) but this subject is by no means ground breaking.
"将孩子看作未来的超级国家”
我讨厌告诉你们但是在过去的20年里其实有很多这方面的研究。只是研究者们倾向于将注意力集中在那些差生的身上(白人工薪阶层的男孩子,成了爆光度最高的群体),但是这一课题毫无疑问是具有开创性的。
bananawater
07 February 2011 9:20 PMLink to this comment
122
The Chinese are just fucking hardcore! I lived in HK for a couple of years, my girlfriend taught at an extra-curricular English language centre where parents would try to enrol their *six month old babies* - she was teaching them from 18 months onwards.
Not surprised that average earnings are lower though - in HK at least, all that academic success was achieved by serious rote learning and exam cramming - once in the workplace (or at least a Western one), the lack of initiative and lateral thinking (or to put it another way, the ability to bullshit your way to the top) was frustratingly obvious in a lot of cases.
中国人就是简直变态!我在香港住了两年,我的女朋友在一家课外辅导性质的英语中心教书!那些家长会试图让他们六个月大的孩子来登记上学,她在这些孩子18个月大的时候就开始教她们。
毫无疑问他们的平均收入要少一些,至少在英国是这样,所有学业上的成功是通过严格的学习和考试时填鸭式的记忆。一旦到了工作场合(至少是西方的工作场合),缺少创新性和发散思维(或者是独辟蹊径使你成功的能力)在很多场合表现得令人沮丧地明显。
Scubadoo
07 February 2011 9:24 PMLink to this comment
60
I wonder what all that parental pushing does to kids' personalities. Regardless of race I hate seeing a pushy parent.
我想知道父母这些施压手段对孩子们性格的影响,而无关种族。我讨厌看现施压的父母。
venerablejohn
07 February 2011 9:26 PMLink to this comment
117
In breaking news, children with parents who take an active interest in their education do well in school.
Next week, revelations about the colour of grass and the religiosity of the Pope.
在即时新闻播报里,孩子们同他们的父母在学习中拥有一种积极的兴趣会令他们在学校里表现得更好。
koushixinfei
07 February 2011 9:27 PMLink to this comment
41
Not only here. Ran a Plant in Tianjin for 5 years, and we had migrant temporary workers on the packing line with a level of numeracy and literacy that would put most UK graduates to shame. Plant outclassed sister Plants in Europe and USA within 3 years on process stability and product development.
And no, their average earnings aren't lower, they're just a damn site better at Maths than the average HMRC inspector!
不仅仅是这里。我已经在天津开了5年的厂了,在包装生产线上,我们有许多临时的农民工在计算和读写上会令许多英国的大学毕业生羞愧。在工艺稳定性和产品开发上,该工厂只用了三年就超过了欧洲和美国的姐妹厂。
但是,他们的平均薪酬更少。他们只是在数学上比税务和海关检验员更厉害一点!
WoolEyes
07 February 2011 9:29 PMLink to this comment
130
I'm a former mathematics teacher, with 20 years experience in grammar and private schools. I quit teaching to home-school my daughters. It is simple to raise a child to shine academically. It is very easy, here is the recipe
1. read to child every single
2. talk to child alot and use good language
3. take child to libraries, theatres, parks, zoos.
4. Start teaching mathematics and formal English every day from age 4
5. Teach child every single day
6. Send child for music lessons, buy instrument and child to play 30 mins/day
7. Go to parks 3-4 times a week, play games
8. ABSOLUTELY no TV, until age 12.
9. Don't use baby-sitters
10. Don't let child mix with thick or badly behaved children
I have done the above, twice, and produced two girls, twins aged 11. Both piano grade 7, both got scholarships to the best public schools in Birmingham and both are well-behaved, happy and most importantly, they have a fierce ability to think independently.
我是一个数学老师,拥有20年在GRAMMAR学校和私立学校任教的经历,我在家教我的女儿,让一个孩子在学业上成功是很容易的。以下是要决:
1,每(天)都对他朗读;
2,经常跟小孩聊天并用优美的语言;
3,带他去图书馆、剧院、公园、动物园;
4,从4岁开始每天都教他学数学和正规的英语;
5,每天都要教他们;
6,送小孩去学音乐,给他买乐器并且让他每天练30分钟;
7,每周去公园3-4次,玩游戏;
8,12岁之前绝对不要让他看电视;
9,不要雇保姆;
10,不要让他与那些有不良行为的孩子一起厮混。
以上的步骤我做了两次,我有两个女儿,她们是双胞胎,11岁。都有钢琴7级,都在伯明翰最好的学校读书并且行为良好生活愉快。最重要的是,她们养成了独立思考的好习惯。
venerablejohn
07 February 2011 9:29 PMLink to this comment
39
BTW, I work with a team based in China, one of them is coming to the UK to work because he wants his kid to get an education in England - now with that kind of commitment - and I dare say he is pretty representative, if your willing to come 1/2 way round the world for your child schooling, it stands to reason your going to make damn sure they achieve.
我在位于中国的一个团队工作。我们团队中的一个要来英国,他希望他的孩子在英国受教育,他正在努力。我敢说他在中国非常有代表性。如果你愿意为了你小孩子的学业而绕过半个地球远道而来,那你的小孩也一定会成功。
Westmorland
07 February 2011 9:37 PMLink to this comment
72
because they just get on with life unlike many other ethnic minorities. the chinese are a great ethnic minority to have in britain - they work hard, they don't want to take over your political system and they are usually very polite and friendly. no chip on the shoulder.
however, like many asian parents (including south asian) they push their children into fact based subjects. very few asian students do geography or history or any of the social sciences or humanities, but loads get pushed into medicine and computing and law school etc.
often these children do academically well, but how many create new music bands and become art students or anything not seen as having status and professionalism or seen as an achievement beyond conventional.
the chinese culture is about working hard and getting on in life, but its not about rocking the boat and going off and doing your own thing and disrespecting your parents in a "rock and roll" way.
there are studies to say they are very good at mathematics.
因为他们不像其他少数族裔那样生活。英国的华人是一个很棒的族群,他们努力工作,他们也不热衷政治并且他们通常都礼貌而友好,不爱发火。
然而,像许多亚裔父母一样(包括南亚),他们让他们的孩子选择实用的学和,很少有亚裔学生选地理、历史或者其他社会科学或人文科学,而扎堆选医学、计算机或者法律等。
通常这些孩子在学习上很厉害,但是多少人建立了乐队、成为艺术类的学生或者从事那些看起来是非专业类的和传统之外的事情?
中国文化提倡刻苦工作进而努力生活,他们很少捣蛋、掉链子、我行我素或者激烈地反叛父母。也有研究表明,他们很擅长数学。
hoangi22
07 February 2011 9:42 PMLink to this comment
33
@nayanza I don't think it's just to do with HK chinese, I was one of a generation of kids born here now in my 30's. I went to a really bad school in central Manchester and pretty much most of the chinese kids in the school went on to study at university. None of them were Hong Kong chinese, we were all from the local council estate. If anything helped us, it was the local library being free.... But I did notice that those parents who were stricter led to the kids doing better.
@@nayanza 我不认为他们只是香港的华人。我是英国长大的一代,现在已经年地30了。我过去在曼彻斯特中心的一所很差劲的学校读书。这里绝大部分的华裔小孩子都进了大学,没有一个是香港人后裔。我们都住在公租房里,如果有什么帮了我们的话,那就是当地免费的图书馆。。。。但是我也注意到,那些父母比较严格的孩子会表现得更好。
semiotecs
07 February 2011 9:43 PMLink to this comment
11
Presumably this study relates solely to state-funded education in the UK. I expect a study of the vastly more numerous Chinese students* in independent schools in the UK would show even more significant disparities in achievement. My daughter studies Mandarin inter alia at an independent school in England, and will take her GCSE in it later this year. My experience is that her Chinese friends take studying very seriously. They show considerable application and dedication in their work and there's also a disproportionately large number of very talented musicians amongst them. Their achievements are extremely impressive, considerably more so than a great many of their Causcasian contemporaries at the same school. The origins of these attitudes to study—of course—lie very largely in those values the parents foster in their children.
* My daughter said she believed there were 'around 70' Chinese students at her school (±7% of school population). There's around 2,500 independent schools in the UK, and while I have no idea how many Chinese students there are in independent education in England, the other three, local, independent schools —seem, from my own limited purview— appear to have not dissimilar numbers of Chinese students.
我猜这只和英国公立学校的教育有关。我希望能在独立学校做一个包括更多华人学生在内的更大范围的调查,它将向我们展示更多其他重要的信息。我的女儿正在英格兰的一所独立学校学普通话,并且今年她就将参加她的GCE考试。我的经验是,她的中国朋友对待学习非常认真。他们表现得非常努力和专注,他们的很多人也不寻常地在音乐方面拥有相当的天分。他们的成绩实在是极其令人印象深刻,比他们同一个学校的白人小孩子要好得多得多。他们对待学习这种认真的态度毫无疑问与他们父母在养育小孩时贯输的价值观有密切联系。
我的女儿说她相信她们学校大概有70个华裔学生(大约占总学生的7%左右)。全英国有大概2500所独立学校,但是我不知道有多少华裔学生在这些独立学校内学习。其他的三个本地和独立学校在我粗略看来,华人学生的数量(与我女儿的学校)很不同。
LaxSean
07 February 2011 9:44 PMLink to this comment
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oooh
07 February 2011 9:47 PMLink to this comment
78
10. Don't let child mix with thick or badly behaved children
Agree with the latter but not the former. And what if your child is 'thick'?
(引用楼上某位的评论)“不要让孩子与那些行为不良的小孩厮混”
只同意后面的但不同意前面的。倘若你自己的小孩是这种“不良”型的呢?
Bobber1
07 February 2011 9:48 PMLink to this comment
6
The Equality and Human Rights Commission report found that British Chinese men and women were twice as likely to be in professional jobs as their white British counterparts. But average earnings remained around 11% lower throughout the population than for those classed as "white Christian".
Wonder if this apparent dichotomy is down to the majority of these individuals working in professional, but not clinical/financial sectors (and, thus relatively poorly paid), in comparison with the plumbers, builders and taxi-driving "white Christian(s)"............if they get paid as much as they do in those jobs without having had to excel at school, why should their kids study any harder than they did?
“平等与人权委员会的报告显示,华裔英国男性和女性从事专业工作的人数,两倍于同他们情况相当的白人。但是他们的平均收入则比与其相当的“白人基督徒”低大概11%。”
我想知道这种明显的不相称是因为虽然大部分的人从事的专业性的工作但不在临床、金融部门等油水多的部门(或者在其他薪水相对较低的部门),而与之对应是的“白人基督”水管工、建筑工、出租车司机?
如果他们明明学习更好却挣得更少,那为什么他们还要让他们的孩子比他们更刻苦的学习呢?
hoangi22
07 February 2011 9:59 PMLink to this comment
90
@westmorland - I work in media, the chinese friends I have range from top make up artists to personal gym instructors and fashion designers.
@Cairncross - bit of a generalisation? We get dominated by western achievements because we're in the west. In China, there are amazing artists, film makers, writers that are just as famous over there as 'Take That' is over here.
@westmorland :我在媒体部门工作。我的华人朋友有顶级的make up艺术家、个人健身教练到时尚设计师。
@Cairncross:一点点总结归纳?我们被西方的成就所包围是因为我们生活在西方的世界。在中国,有令人惊叹的艺术设计师,电影工作者,作家,在当地火到就像这里的“Take That”一样。 |