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我,一个新加坡华人拒绝说普通话(评论更新)

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发表于 2012-12-29 16:17 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
I am an English speaking Chinese Singaporean. I have been reading this forum and talking to many Singaporeans (duh) and I just can't understand why some Singaporeans of Chinese ancestry say things such as "if you can't speak Chinese, you have lost your roots", "English is not our language" etc.
Let me make some points clear.

我是一个说英语的新加坡华人。我已经关注这个论坛很久了,并且和很多新加坡人交流过(啧)可我不能理解为什么那么多新加坡华人前辈总是说“如果你不能说汉语,你就失去了你的根”,“英语不是我们的语言”等等。
让我把话说清楚。

1. I am Singaporean, not Chinese. I have never been to China. My culture is Singaporean not Chinese. Anyone who has been to China will know Singapore culture and Chinese culture are like night and day, totally different. Our laws, medical system, social conventions, dressing, thinking, schools, transport, everything are TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

1. 我是新加坡人,不是中国人。我从来没去过中国。我生活在新加坡文化圈而不是中国文化圈。只要是去过中国的人一定会知道,新加坡文化和中国文化就像白昼与黑夜,完全不同。我们的法律,医疗系统,社会环境,穿衣,思考,学校,交通,所有的,完·全·不·同。

2. I, like all Singaporeans, grew up in school with English as our first language. I only use English at work and at home, since Singapore is runs on English. Our laws, newspapers and everything else are all in English.
I don't understand why under such an environment, some people still reject the use of English and speak Mandarin.

2. 就像所有的新加坡人一样,我也在英语为第一语言的学校中成长。我在家或者工作也只使用英语,因为新加坡都是用英语的。我们的法律,报纸和别的东西都是英语写的。我不理解为何在如此的环境下,那些人还是拒绝说英语并且说普通话。

3. English IS Singapore's language. Some Singaporeans reject English as a "foreign language", the language of the British and Americans etc and say that as "Chinese" we should speak Mandarin, our ancestral language, our "roots". This is just a very bigoted view which is based on ignorance.
If we subscribe to this "foreign language" argument, every English speaking country in the world except English would be speaking a "foreign language" and have lost their ancestral "roots"!
If we follow this argument, in Britain, the Welsh should speak Welsh. Scottish should speak Scots, those at Cornwal should speak Cornish. Those in Northern Ireland should speak Irish.
Ireland should speak Gaelic or Irish, not English, a "foreign" language from England.
Americans, who are mostly of Irish, Germans, Polish descent would all be speaking a "foreign language". After all, they should speak German, Polish or Irish language, not English! And African Americans should be speaking Afrikaans?
English is no more a foreign language to Singaporeans than it is to the Americans, Canadians and 80% of British people.
If Singaporean Chinese should speak Mandarin, then German Americans should all speak German, Irish Americans, Irish, African Americans, Afrikaans etc.. But they like Singaporeans, are not German/Irish/African, the link has long been cut, they are Americans, they speak American English.

3.英语是新加坡的语言。有些新加坡人拒绝英语并且认为那是“外语”,因为那是英国美国等国家的语言,并认为作为华人,我们应该说祖先都说的普通话,那是我们的根。这仅仅是基于愚蠢而产生的固执观点
如果我们赞同那个关于“外语”的说法,那世界上除了英国以外的说英语的国家实际上都在说外语而且丢掉了根!
如果我们深入讨论这个观点,在大不列颠,威尔士人要说威尔士语,苏格兰人要说苏格兰语,康沃尔人要说凯尔特语,北爱尔兰人要说爱尔兰语。
爱尔兰人应该说盖尔语或者爱尔兰语,而不是从英格兰传过来的“外语”——英语。
美国人,他们大多是爱尔兰德国波兰血统,那他们现在大多是在说外语吗。终究,他们应该说德语波兰语或爱尔兰语,不是英语!而且美国黑人难道要说南非语吗?
所以英语对新加坡人已经不再是一门外语了,就像对美国人加拿大人和80%的大不列颠人一样。
如果新加坡人要说普通话,那德国血统的美国人要说德语,爱尔兰血统的美国人要说爱尔兰语,波兰血统的美国人要说波兰语,美国黑人要说非洲语,等等。但就像新加坡一样,他们也并没有说,因为他们和之前的人已经断绝关系了,他们是美国人,他们说美式英语。

4. I think Singaporeans should be clear that they are Singaporeans not Chinese citizens. Just like African Americans are Americans not Africans. German Americans are Americans not Germans...so on and so forth.
I say we speak Standard Singapore English proudly with our Singaporean accent. (Mild) Singlish is fun as well, no it is not "bad English" because if you compare it with some British dialects such as "Geordie" or "Scottish English" or even "Welsh English", it is actually easier to understand.
If a foreigner does not understand my accent or comment that I sound weird, I would tell him he is the one who sounds weird! This is Singapore and this is our accents. If you can't speak with a Singaporean accent, then of course we can't understand you well, don't compain.

4. 我认为新加坡人应该明白,他们是新加坡人,不是中国公民,就像美国黑人一样,是美国人不是非洲人。美籍德国人是美国人不是德国人…以此类推。我以自己说的一口标准新加坡英语而自豪。(温和的)新加坡英语也很有趣,不,那不是“说得不好的英语”因为如果你把它和英国方言比较之后,就会觉得他实在是太好理解了。
看看那些纽卡斯尔英语和苏格兰英语甚至是威尔士英语吧!
如果一个外国人不理解我的口音或者认为他很奇怪,我会告诉他你才是奇怪的那个!这是新加坡,这是我们的口音。如果你不能说新加坡口音,那当然我们也无法理解你了,别抱怨。

5. Mandarin is not even my ancestral language if you want to be anal about it. Mandarin is the dialect of Beijing and my forefathers were probably from Fujian, though I have some Malay blood in me as well.

5. 如果要深究的话,普通话甚至不是我的母语。普通话是北京方言,但我的祖先大概是福建人所以我应该有一些马来血统。

6. Mandarin is useful? If you are dealing with China, yes. But lets not forget that 55 countries worldwide and almost all supranational organs use English.
The biggest economy in the world, America, uses English. Europeans all speak English as their second language these days. Canadaians, Australians, etc. And without English, you cannot find a good job in Singapore.

6. 普通话很有用?如果你和中国打交道,是的。但让我们不要忘记世界上那些55个说英语的国家。世界上最大的金融中心,美国,是用英语的。欧洲现在也都是英语为第二语言。加拿大,澳大利亚等等也是。并且,不会英语,你在新加坡是找不到好工作的。

7. Lets not forget my "forefathers" and probably yours ran away from China and took up Singapore citizenship for a reason. He didn't want to be a Chinese citizen.

7. 让我们也不要忘记我们的祖先。他们很有可能是从中国逃过来的,为了拿到新加坡国籍。他可能也不想当中国公民了。

So don't tell me to speak Mandarin (a beijing dialect) in Singapore (an English society).

所以别再让我在新加坡(一个英语社会)这地方讲普通话了(那是北京方言)

If you can't speak English in Singapore, I suggest you hang your head in shame, for you have truly "lost your roots".

如果你不能在新加坡讲英语,我建议你低下头羞愧的做人吧,因为你真的丢了你的根

点评

自言自语罢了  发表于 2012-12-30 20:48
就一老外而已跟我们中国人何关?我不认为他跟我们中国人有什么关系。当然说英语的白人也不会认为他跟白人有什么关系。  发表于 2012-12-30 18:17
#请文明用语#二字已不足形容这位新加坡华人了!  发表于 2012-12-30 09:58
不喷不快。说话没逻辑的非主流  发表于 2012-12-30 03:38
知道什么叫异族吗?不是被同化就是被消灭。  发表于 2012-12-30 03:35
还有。为什么老拒绝会说多种语言,  发表于 2012-12-30 03:34
谁说你是中国人,顶多算个中南半岛异族,  发表于 2012-12-30 03:33
LZ一副受劣待的样子,好像是普通话在新加坡已经强到了能撼动英语的地步,真是这样吗?别没事撒娇  发表于 2012-12-30 00:35

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 楼主| 发表于 2012-12-29 16:17 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 诺基亚 于 2012-12-29 16:19 编辑

评论翻译:
why cant you just speak both?

为什么你不能两种都说?

oni in sg
got people refuse to speak the language their ancestors spoke.

让人们拒绝说他们祖先说的语言

If you had read my post, you would realise that in America, Britain, Ireland and every English speaking country, 90% of them are not speaking the language their ancestors spoke!That is, if you can read.And you might need a brain as well.

LZ回复LS:
如果你读了我的文章,你就会发现在美国,大不列颠,爱尔兰和任何说英语的国家,90%都不说他们祖先说的话!
那是呢,如果你能读的话而且似乎你还需要点脑子

(译注:下面的原文就是汉语,回复LZ)


不好意思
看来我在英国认识的人都是假的T.T
就好象我那个wales fren
他说的welsh 都是假的
我去wales看到说welsh 的人都是假的.
lastly你的90% come from where?

In America, Britain, etc etc, students are encouraged to pick up second and third languages. In fact many of them are picking up Mandarin. A person with any foresight at all would strive to be bilingual, trilingual or even multi-lingual. Only an idiot would refuse to be proficient in more than 1 language.
Get it you elitist son of a b****
How's my fucking english?

美国和英国等地方,学生们被建议学第二语言或者第三语言。事实上很多人都选择学习普通话有远见的人都会努力掌握两种语言,三种或更多。只有白痴才会拒绝精通一种以上语言。
知道了吗你这绝赞的SOB
我这该死的英语如何?

(译注:下面的原文就是汉语,回复LZ)

你高兴就好

First and foremost i actually took some time to read that fail story of yours. You dont even deserve for me to look for a cool story bro picture. Yes some of our ancestors originate from china and yes our roots belong to there. If china culture and bla bla bla is different from ours, what makes you think that in london/british/US, our culture is similar to theirs.For god's sake, our national language is malay and not english/chinese. Thus i wont elaborate on point 3As for the rest of the points, nobody cares if you speak england or china or iraq here. Fact is language, is just a communication medium that we use. For point no.7 , our forefathers escaped from china that time due to world war 2 happening in china. I suggest reading up on your secondary history textbook. And btw, in dialects we mean hokkien/cantonese/teochew , and not chinese which is a language. Lastly china like india is a developing country, we shall observe with open eyes in the future, will it be the ang mos that is rushing to learn chinese or the other way around.Once again on your last few sentence, nobody cares what language you speak. Its not our fault that you got butt hurt over these things and decided to QQ here. I speak TTFU's language and i am proud of it

首先并且最重要的是我花了一些时间来读你那不及格的文章。我还不如花那时间去找一些cool story bro的图片。是的我们的祖先有的是从中国来的,而且的确你的根是在中国。如果中国文化或者别的与我们的不同,是什么让你认为我们比较像伦敦、大英或者US了?看在上帝的份上,我们的国语是马来语而不是英语和中文。所以我不会深究第三点至于其他的,没人在乎你说中文还是英语或者伊拉克语。事实就是,语言只是一种交流媒介。第七点,我们的祖先从中国逃离是因为中国是WW2的战场之一。我建议你去读读高中历史书。顺便说一句,我们认为像闽南语,粤语或者潮州语才是方言,而不是汉语,汉语是一种语言。最后,中国和印度一样是发展中国家,我们要眼光开阔的看未来,说不定以后大家都会争着抢着去学汉语,或者反过来。再一次谈谈你最后的几句话,没人在意你到底说什么话。被嘲笑并且想要QQ这(不懂,求指教)并不是你的错。我说TTFU(这又是什么= =)的语言并且我以此为豪。

National language is Malay or not, is politically defined. A "National Language" is not intrinsic in nature that it should be a particular language.Mandarin itself, is another dialect, as pointed out by TS already. It is only elevated to the status of National Language by the government.The political definition of dialects and languages by political entities is not supported by linguists.

官方语言不管是不是马来语,那都是政治上的东西。一个国家语言不是本来就有的,那应该是一个独有的语言普通话本身是一种方言,TS已经说了。只不过政府让他变成了国家语言。政治上的定义方言或者语言是政体决定的,不是语言学家所支持的

. . . I feel sorry for his ancesters . ...

我对他的祖先表示遗憾 ……

“My culture is Singaporean not Chinese.“
Singaporean culture? Singaporeans use a lot of Mandarin in the heartlands. Lots of it. Are you sure Mandarin is not part of Singapore culture? Yet if it is part of Singaporean culture, why are you not speaking it?

新加坡文化?新加坡人在中心地带会使用很多普通话。很多。你确定普通话不是新加坡文化的一部分吗?如果是的话,你为什么不说它呢?

“Our laws, newspapers and everything else are all in English.“
Check your facts and get it right.

(引用并回复)“我们的法律,报纸和别的东西都是英语写的。”
去确认一下那是不是真的吧

”English IS Singapore's language....they are Americans, they speak American English.“
Mandarin, Tamil, Malay are all part of Singapore's language. If your argument is to be subscribed, you should learn our national language as well.

普通话,泰米尔语,马来语都是新加坡语言的一部分。如果你想要你的观点被认可,你应该去学习一下我们的官方语言到底是什么

“I think Singaporeans should be clear that they are Singaporeans not Chinese citizens....This is Singapore and this is our accents. If you can't speak with a Singaporean accent, then of course we can't understand you well, don't compain.“
Neither are Singaporeans American Citizens.This is Singapore, this is us. Why don't speak Mandarin?

新加坡人也不是美国公民
这就是新加坡,这就是我们,为什么不说普通话?

“Europeans all speak English as their second language these days. Canadaians, Australians, etc.“
So what's wrong with speaking Mandarin as second language?

(引用并回复)“欧洲现在也都是英语为第二语言。加拿大,澳大利亚等等也是。”
所以普通话作为第二语言有什么错吗?

“So don't tell me to speak Mandarin (a beijing dialect) in Singapore (an English society).“
Don't worry, we won't tell you to. We will just speak Mandarin among ourselves.

(引用并回复)“所以别再让我在新加坡(一个英语社会)这地方讲普通话了(那是北京方言)”
别担心,我们不会强迫你的。我们只是自己说普通话而已

Can i get a refund for my 5 minutes please ?

能把我的五分钟还给我吗?

10 mins for me :(

我花了十分钟

There were Chinese schools in Singapore even during the British colonial days, and they were teaching in Mandarin.

新加坡甚至在英国殖民时期也有中国学校,而且他们都教普通话。

you definitely have a pointafter reading the replies from others (which are more emotionally-charged), you logically listed out point-by-point in an objective manneri support your arguments

你的确有点想法我读了别人的回复之后(那些都太感情用事),你以一种很有逻辑并且很有目的性的方式分点列出来,我支持你

Wah so our points have no merit at all ah?Our replies may have been emotionally charged but that doesn't mean that we did not counter his points logically.

哇 所以我们的观点都是没有价值的,啊?我们的回复的确是有可能有感情因素,但是那不意味着我们没有思考过他的观点

May be . . . Bangulzai afraid he can't ... take the heat.

回LS:
可能吧…大概LSS表示他不能。。承担责任

i mean, unless you have a limited mental capacity when it comes to learning and speaking a language, and since its taught to you in schools, why can't you speak both? you dont have to be perfect at mandarin, but you could sure use it, or it might come in useful in the future.

我觉得吧,除非你对学习语言的能力有限,都则既然学校都教你了,你干嘛不两种都说呢?你不需要普通话很好,但是你要使用它,他日后可能对你有用

.. . . .. it is all about attitude problem ....

这是态度问题啊……

. . .. he fails to see the importance of learning more languages . . .. . for own benefits.
OR . . . could he be . . . .. . just attacking Chinese language . . . only ..

他们能看到学习更多语言的重要性……为了自己好
或者他可能……仅仅是为了……攻击中国的语言而已

actually, I remember reading some, I think it was german or british research, that mandarin is more demanding cognitively than other languages, cos the script is partially pictographic in nature, and there is much more implied context which has to be decoded and interpreted on the fly. ah hah ! ..... googled it ! ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3025796.stm

实际上,我记得我读过很多,我觉得这应该是德国或者英国的调查,里面说比起其他语言,普通话对认知力要求比较高。因为那本质上是象形文字,并且当飞速阅读的时候你需要注意解读隐含的语境。啊哈!我google的!http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3025796.stm
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发表于 2012-12-29 17:07 | 显示全部楼层
无所谓   反正我从来也不认为新加坡人是中国人

点评

对他们只是香蕉人而不是中国人  发表于 2012-12-30 18:23
现在反华最厉害的就是有些香蕉人。  发表于 2012-12-29 17:48
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发表于 2012-12-29 17:50 | 显示全部楼层
从回复看#请文明用语#在哪里都不受人待见
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发表于 2012-12-29 18:03 | 显示全部楼层
只有拥有中国国籍的人才配之隔称之为中国人
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发表于 2012-12-29 18:18 | 显示全部楼层
这个新加坡人很有意思,一些新加坡人以为自己说的英语,可是那闽南腔的英语听起来比印度英语还难懂。再说也没什么中国人让新加坡人一定说汉语啊。
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发表于 2012-12-29 18:31 | 显示全部楼层
喜闻乐见的为啥自己的皮是黄的……
逆向先锋欢乐多。
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发表于 2012-12-29 18:46 | 显示全部楼层
totally different?????????
完全的不同?
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发表于 2012-12-29 19:40 | 显示全部楼层
无所谓,你一个新加坡人,讲那个国家语言那是你的自由,和中国人民没关系,再说中国只喜欢那些对他忠诚的海外赤子,就像汪精卫那样的即使是名正言顺的中国人,中华人民共和国和中国人民都嫌多,把不得把他们送给欧美,何况你。
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发表于 2012-12-29 20:56 | 显示全部楼层
这正是新加坡政府希望看到的国民的意识形态。这种人的存在代表了新加坡政府洗脑成功。
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发表于 2012-12-29 22:18 | 显示全部楼层
新加坡人爱说什么语言,我完全没兴趣了解。
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发表于 2012-12-29 23:07 | 显示全部楼层
想说什么语言就说什么,和我们中国人无关
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发表于 2012-12-29 23:31 | 显示全部楼层
原来英语是新加坡人发明的!!!
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发表于 2012-12-30 00:06 | 显示全部楼层
这孩子是非主流,被攻击的体无完肤。

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的确是非主流  发表于 2012-12-30 15:21
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发表于 2012-12-30 00:10 | 显示全部楼层
随便了,反正你是新加坡人
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发表于 2012-12-30 00:21 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 wwwalker 于 2012-12-30 00:22 编辑

你可以说你不喜欢说普通话,但用到“拒绝说”这种语气,说明了思想的狭隘和偏见。被强迫学习英语十几年,我也没有到“拒绝说”英语的地步,只是不喜欢而已。
普通话一定要中国人用么?那么英语就应该只是英国用咯?你们新加坡人就只应该说新加坡语。什么?没有新加坡语?那么新加坡人就不应该说话了。
对于不愿意认祖归宗的人,中国人是不会强求的,历来世界就不缺乏这种人。
新加坡领导之所以鼓励国人要学习普通话,一则是新加坡华人多,普通话是个广谱适用的交流语言;二则是他们也认识到中国的崛起,学好普通话能在以后跟中国做更多的生意。而作者自愿放弃这种交流语言,放弃以后跟中国更好的生意合作机会,没人会埋怨作者,只是有人会说作者是个傻 B。

当然,这种文章也很有可能是某些反华势力所写,这又另说了。
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发表于 2012-12-30 03:29 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 superloong 于 2012-12-30 03:34 编辑

文明主要依托于文字,不是文字的形状是否简化或字母化,所有文字和词汇都代表了一个文明典故,从而形成一种文明相关的表义,语音倒无所谓。说普通话只是为了方便交流。
是那些受迫害妄想症者硬要将其政治化。将tg当政后的所有政策都政治化,贴上各种政治标签。缺乏一种平常心。
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发表于 2012-12-30 10:19 | 显示全部楼层
哈哈!如果他的祖籍国还是东亚病夫,他现在连黑人都不如!
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发表于 2012-12-30 11:27 | 显示全部楼层
"since Singapore is runs on English. "

就这英语水平,在英语国家也是个边缘阶层而已,千万别自称华人。
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发表于 2012-12-30 12:48 来自 四月社区 手机版 | 显示全部楼层
这完全不是语言的事,完全是不想承认华人的事,但是这个sb很愚蠢的用语言来说事,要知道,在新加坡,哪怕是极度反华的政客也同样说中文,因为他们知道中文将来的重要性
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