|
|
【中文标题】为什么香港人不喜欢大陆人？
【原文标题】Why do Hong Kongers dislike mainland Chinese?
【登载媒体】QUORA
【原文链接】http://www.quora.com/Why-do-Hong-Kongers-dislike-mainland-Chinese
我不是香港人，我所认识的香港人都令人愉快，值得深入交往。中国游客涌入香港消费，给当地带来繁荣，这不是坏事呀。
到底有什么可以讲得通的原因让香港人讨厌大陆人？仅供讨论，请不要人身攻击，除非你能提出足够的理由。
Michael Hui：
我并不讨厌他们。我家里的4个人性格都不一样，所以我不认为13亿人也有同样的行为方式，不能盲目地统一反对。回到你的问题，应该准确地说是来到香港的中国大陆游客。坦率地说，中国游客涌入从香港到南极的世界各地已经不是新闻了。他们受欢迎还是受排斥是各地都存在的问题，香港并不是一个例外。
无可否认的事实是香港自2003年以来发生了巨大的、非自愿的变化。（更准确地说是自从1997年，但是2003年之前中国大陆人必需参团进入香港，所以双方的互动比较有限。）每年有3500万人涌入小小的城市，当然会引起一些想法，针对这些游客的复杂想法。我相信香港人在此中有所收益，旅游产业的确产生了许多就业岗位和商业机会，但也有一些损失。下面是部分比较大的损失：
1，购物：从面馆到银行的当地商铺，把宝贵的底商位置让给珠宝和手表柜台，目的是吸引游客。香港人不得不改变购物的习惯，躲开游客密集的购物区，比如尖沙咀和铜锣湾。
2，交通：港铁每天从早8点到晚11点都拥挤不堪，当地人只好与游客挤在一起（矛盾因此而生），或者改用其它交通方式。
3，育儿需求：由于不敢使用中国生产的育儿产品，很多中国大陆人来香港的目的就是为了购买其它国家生产的这些产品。因此，有限的婴儿奶粉库存引起了香港有孩子家庭的恐慌。
4，房地产市场：最严重的问题（当然有人不同意）是房地产市场。人们认为中国大陆的买家让房价达到历史最高点，很多香港人面临严重的住房需求。
中国的俗语“衣食住行”表明了人的基本需求。如果一个人不能直接从游客中受益，而且还在购买服装、食物、住宅和交通方面受到影响，就不免产生负面情绪了。
我想这是一个商业城市的必然命运：有人赚钱，有人支付代价。
Logan Yang：
我从一个中国大陆到香港大学来读书的学生的角度来回答这个问题。我遇到的大部分香港人都非常友好、热心，无论他们有什么背景，教授、学生、医生和护士，或者仅仅是街上的普通人。我并没有感到自己被排斥，这一点我很感谢，这是我热爱香港，把它作为第二故乡的一个重要原因。我相信，这种包容性是一座城市成为理想移民场所的重要因素。同时，我认为侮辱大陆人的抗议者仅仅是少数香港人。
我来自北京。作为一个土生土长的北京人，我从不认为外地人不应该进入北京。直到近年来，出现了太多的不文明行为，外来人口直线上升，让人们无论通过哪种交通方式都动弹不得。当地人的正常生活受到汹涌而来的外地人的负面影响，自然会不高兴，无论这些人是游客还是移民。一座城市的基础设施有其局限性，一旦平衡被打破，要么导致生活倒退，要么被迫强制产生一个新的平衡。
用教育来举例。有人说香港80％的高校学生都是大陆人，香港学生被剥夺了接受高等教育的权利。几年前，我作为一名大学生，如果自己不想，整年也说不上一句广东话。我可以用英语和教授交谈，与周围的几百名大陆学生交往。的确，这就是香港高等教育的现状。如果你问我这对香港学生是否公平，我不知道该如何回答。大陆学生更聪明、学习成绩更好，比当地学生能取得更高的考试分数。这仅仅是因为他们是大学学校中的精英，大陆的精英学生总数或许和香港的总人口数量差不多。而且，大陆学生要支付更昂贵的学费。但是，如果香港对所有聪明的学生都敞开大门，本地学生的确有没有接触高等教育的机会了。我完全同意香港政府应该给本地学生留有足够的机会，但是究竟要设置一个什么样的比例？很难说，这是争执最激烈的问题之一。
改变无论对于个人还是城市来说都是痛苦的。在北京，我不会仅仅因为外来者让我的生活品质下降就攻击他们。每个人都有权利选择居住的场所，只要符合法律的规定。这不是由我，或者由任何人来决定的，是应该由政府根据具体情况和民意制定移民、教育和旅游等政策。确定的是，无论如何会有一个限制，要兼顾法治和公平，考虑到未来的变化和基础设施的计划。
Richard Warfield：
你说提出的问题其实并不是“香港人讨厌大陆人”，而是“香港人讨厌大陆游客在香港制造的混乱”。
每年有5000万大陆游客前往香港，政府最近预测，这个数字在9年内将上升到1亿。做个形象的比较，法国是世界上最受欢迎的旅游目的地，它每年接待的游客数量是8300万（整个国家！）。
数量庞大、急速增长的游客所造成的效果随处可见，尤其是在繁华的商业中心和公共交通设施里，以及零售模式的改变。（远离本地化的商铺和餐厅，用奢侈品迎合大陆游客。）
尽管一些人从汹涌而来的游客身上获得了巨大的利益（尤其是奢侈品牌和房东），但有很多人觉得遭到了不公平待遇。
Joseph Wang：
提醒一点，香港变化得太“快”了。现在的香港已经与2012年底的香港有了很多变化。重要的一点是爱德华•斯诺登带来了很多变化，如果你认为一个人不可能带来这么大的影响，下面就是一个反例。
你有可能会得到一个合理的回答，但是我坚决反对在这里讨论反大陆的问题，因为反大陆->反移民->我是一个“新香港人”。作为这里的居民，我觉得香港人的观点被媒体（例如《苹果日报》）严重扭曲了。
我读到了太多有关香港人不喜欢大陆人的报道，但几乎没有亲眼见到过。的确，有这样的事情发生，但是我认为更可能的原因是，不喜欢大陆人的香港人更愿意在《苹果日报》和《南华早报》上发表文章。而喜欢大陆人或者对此无所谓的香港人不愿发言，所以人们忽视了他们的存在。
例如，网络在叫嚣公园了餐厅里“太拥挤了”，我觉得餐厅老板和公园管理方对此根本不在意。天啊，这里有太多的游客！他们在大把花钱！！！房租太高了，因为大陆人在玩命消费！！！这的确是个问题，但我不觉得大部分房地产从业人员不喜欢这样的场景。
众口难调。香港是个言论自由的地区，所以人们有怨言就会说出来，但是没有怨言的人不会说话。如果你只听抱怨的声音，你得到的就是不客观的想法。
例如，中国并没有“控制”特首和立法委。香港政府被当地企业巨头和商业利益所控制，而这些巨头和商业普遍“亲华”，他们倾向于与北京合作，而不是对着干。所以这和中国控制香港政府是两码事。
事实是，香港是中国的一部分，香港的未来要依赖中国。这让人们紧张，并且表示反对，但经济和政治现实就是这样。不满意的人大发牢骚，满意的人安安静静，因为他们没必要制造噪音。
我的观点就是，的确有一些不满的情绪，但是媒体过分夸大了这些声音。人们的确在抱怨游客，但仅仅是抱怨，这里不是黎巴嫩。让他们在脸书上自由地发泄吧。
以下是一些典型的愚蠢思想：
1，有人似乎坚持要保护香港文化。香港在150年前就是一个寸草不生的岛屿，连个像样的码头都没有，直到大陆送来大量的移民。仇外情绪简直可笑，香港本来就是个移民城市。
2，香港会变成大陆的样子。我不认为香港的最终结局是变成与大陆一模一样的城市，我觉得香港人烦躁的部分原因是，他们觉得大陆人就像50年代的香港。
3，抱怨大陆的同时也是在抱怨其他香港人。对中央的企业巨头和银行家发牢骚是行不通的，所以人们直接把怨气发泄给北京。
再多说一些香港的移民政策。有趣的一个现实是，反对大陆的香港人在政治上没有话语权，实权人物基本都亲北京。民主人士氛围温和民主派和激进民主派。温和民主派认为“中国需要民主”，激进民主派反对企业巨头，支持移民政策。激进民主派人士曾经为印度尼西亚和菲律宾女佣争取永久居留身份。法院也一直倾向于支持移民政策。《苹果日报》有意夸大移民的可疑身份，但在事情被搞得不可收拾之间自己先闭嘴了。一旦你走上这条路，很快就会变得丑陋。
具有讽刺意味的是，反大陆运动的最坚定支持者就是北京。北京会想方设法地取悦香港，所以它才会推翻香港法院取消移民限制的决定。香港如果想要停止旅游，就停止好了。香港可以关闭边境，但是人们会发现自己的喉咙被掐住了。有人抱怨大陆人推高了房价（先不提香港自己的土地制度如何混乱），政府就设置门槛，不出两个月就会有房地产商上街游行。
把所有责任都推给外来者是一个方便的借口，因为外来者没有发言权，也没有选举权，有太多的事情都不是他们的错。房价过高、污染严重、就业困难、政府不力，这都与外来者和大陆人无关。就像世界各地的移民一样，他们只是一个替罪羊。
香港肩负着“国际金融中心”的责任，抨击移民总要有个限度。还有很多人对大陆人抱着同情的心理。看看香港50年代的照片，所有人都想进入香港（最终留在深圳），他们自己也是50年代来到香港的大陆人。
香港是一个自由的社会，人们有言论自由。听到部分人的抱怨不是坏事，但更重要的是人们要听取各方面的声音。我不喜欢西方媒体的一个原因是，他们的报道只关注表面，并没有反映出香港多元化的声音。的确，我也不能代表香港，但是我看到的与媒体报道的不一样，我就必需要说出来。
每个社会都需要新鲜的血液。我很不喜欢听到有人说香港已死、香港正在死去。有问题就想办法解决啊。香港有机会成为全球首屈一指的金融中心，不仅仅是中国的经济领头羊，而且还要雄踞世界第一。我们不仅要打败新加坡和上海，还要打败伦敦和纽约。我们不是硅谷的翻版，我们比硅谷做得更好。
说的有些离谱了，但有时候，你需要一些离谱的思量来清理头脑。或许这就是为什么移民局给我颁发签证和居留证的原因。
Cyrus Cheung：
香港人高举英国国旗，让大陆人“滚出去”。
当两个来自不同文化背景的群体突然融合在一起的时候，难免会有冲突发生。香港人对大陆人表现出来的敌意来自一种自大的情绪，他们认为自己接受过更好的教育，而且内心害怕大陆人所代表的某种东西（共产党）。
香港是东西方融合的怪胎。政治和法律制度脱胎于英国，但人口属于中国种族。
所以你会看到一个具有传统中国儒家价值观（尊老、服从）的华人群体，同时具有来自英国的解放思想（人权）。价值观因时间而异，尤其在经济迅猛发展时，变化得更快。毋庸讳言，香港的文化非常独特，部分原因是它的经济成就——人们推崇辛苦的工作，认为一座好的城市是对辛勤工作的回报。效率高于一切，但传统礼仪仍被视为高等人士必备的品质。
另外一个重要的特点是其与西方千丝万缕的联系。90年代的香港社会对西方，尤其是英国，有特殊的感情。60年代之后，英国对待中国民众的态度不像印度那样，不怎么残酷。快速的经济发展也让殖民政府有了更好的期望。最后一任总督彭定康还采取了一系列的政治改革制度，包括立法委员会的直选。
中国走的是一条完全不同的道路。人们总说中国有世界上最悠久的历史，但根本不是这样。持续了33年的战争（从大约1916年到1949年）把中国文化破坏殆尽。共产党凭借武力上台，让中高产阶级纷纷逃往香港、台湾和东南亚。
我算不上是儒家思想的拥趸。孔子教导世人孝和忠，这或许并不利于创新。但它还强调了仁慈和礼仪，绅士必须有教养。文化大革命摧毁了这些传统，中国社会一直在试图恢复这些价值观。但在当时，所谓中国人民仅仅是一大批未受过任何教育的农民。
文化大革命摧毁了中国传统文化的遗产，毛死后，中国开始重建这一切。“邓小平理论”填补了这一空白。在1978年召开的十一届三中全会上，邓小平宣布“致富光荣”。这个国家向全球经济开放，中国在过去20年里保持15％以上的经济增长。因此出现了一大批富人，和一小批超级富人。这些人都在文化大革命期间或之后长大，他们得到的观念是孝、忠、礼等传统价值观都是狗屁，金钱至上。
这是对中国近代史的一个简述，快速的经济发展并没有伴随着同样的价值观发展。香港在70年代也一样（随地吐痰）。人们戴着有色眼睛，不去设法理解对方。香港回归之后，与大陆的往来变得更加方便，大陆人开始携带者新鲜积累的财富涌入这个殖民地。
那是中国大陆，辛巴！
香港人对大陆人的意见
下面是香港人对大陆人的部分不满：
－有报道说中国孕妇到香港来非法产子，在香港初生的婴儿自动获得香港公民身份。因此，由于医院床位紧张，有香港孕妇不得不在走廊里生产。
－大陆人拖着箱子走来走去，这个看似无关紧要的问题实际上给城市带来的困扰，因为这里是世界上人口密度最高的地区。
－大陆人在香港什么都买，推高了物价，房地产价格更是一飞冲天。大陆人把香港的婴儿配方奶粉一扫而空，大陆政府制定政策，规定每个人只能把规定数量的奶粉带回中国。
－大陆人随地吐痰，在非吸烟区吸烟，还有报道说婴儿在地铁里大便。不用说，这必然会招致中国同胞的不满。
香港人唱歌骚扰大陆人，管他们叫蝗虫。
大陆人对香港人的意见：
－大陆人不明白为什么香港人对他们怀有敌意。人们不喜欢对自己怀有敌意的人，尤其是当他们不明白为什么。
－认为香港是中国的一部分，香港人应当尊重中国，这里毕竟是中国的土地。
－大陆人进入香港比香港人进入大陆更困难。实际上，香港人可以得到一张卡片，随时可以进入中国，大陆人却需要申请签证才能进入香港。更加讽刺的是，香港对中国大陆游客索取签证，却对其它国家的人敞开大门。我认为这是大陆人最不能理解的现象。
－与第二点有关，认为香港人应当学习普通话，迎合大陆的习俗。香港坚持自己的方言和文化，被认为是不尊重的表现。
－认为有钱就有尊重。的确，中国是香港的经济发动机，大陆憎恨香港没有任何感激的表示。
北京大学教授说香港人是“狗”。
在香港看来，最严重的问题是中国掌握一切的话语权，而且是不公平地掌握。我认为，香港人非常害怕失去自由，中央政府基本对其放任不管（中国政府有太多的事情要操心了——世界贸易组织、非典、奥运会、薄和现在的周），但如果腾出空来，香港政府只有服从的份。枪杆子里面出政权，党握着枪，至少目前如此。
香港特首是由数百个共产党官员和地方商界人士，在两三个候选人中“选举”出来的，这些人都接受大陆政府。大约一半立法委员由香港民众选举产生，另外一半由共产党任命。
我还想说，香港与大陆之间的问题并不罕见，上海和北京与中国其它城市之间也存在类似的问题。上海人是出名的自命不凡，经济和文化差异总会造成冲突。只不过在香港问题上，差异更加明显，关系破裂得更加突然。
香港人需要理解，大陆人在20世纪遭遇了太多的苦难（其实并不算是很久以前），人们需要一些时间找到自己的价值观。随地吐痰和乱丢垃圾在十年前的香港也很常见。中国孕妇来香港生产也是可以理解的，哪个母亲不想让自己的孩子有更好的生活呢？大陆人需要理解，香港人不认为自己是中国人，或者至少不是大陆人。毕竟，钱不是万能的。
Elliott Chen：
很简单，香港不想变成和大陆一样。
99年来，香港在英国的统治下独立于中国大陆。在此期间，它发展出一种独特的中西混合特性，娱乐业、食物、文化、商业环境，甚至语言。
现在回归了，带有大陆文化特点的大陆人把自己的政治、文化、语言（香港人对于广东话非常保守）带到了香港人的家门口。所以一些香港人不喜欢大陆对自身文化的侵略和破坏。
一些大陆人粗鲁、不礼貌的举止的确起到了推波助澜的作用，但是他们不仅在香港，在全世界都这么干。
作为一个曾经在大陆居住过的香港人，我在理性上对双方都表示理解，但是我的心属于香港。大陆人，请尊重我们的城市，理解我们喜欢说广东话。尽管我们都是中国人，香港与大陆不一样。
Adam Supernant：
大陆人不愿意花时间说服政府做出改变，给香港人带来了很多的头痛。
众所周知，很多大陆孕妇通过合法或者非法的途径来到香港生产，这样她们的孩子可以得到更好的福利和教育。谁不想让孩子变得更好呢？但是，你是否见过大陆孕妇向地方政府抗议，要求改善福利条件和教育质量？从来没见过，或者抗议的规模非常小。很多人只是灰溜溜地前往香港。
去年有大量的婴儿配方奶粉通过香港边境进入中国，主要的原因是大陆的食品安全机制没有香港的先进。为什么大陆人不向政府抗议做出改善呢？每次大陆出现食品危机，先是出现一些愤怒的声音，然后他们就到香港购买安全的产品。这是个简单的解决方法。
奢侈品、电子类产品，甚至香皂和牙膏等日用品的价格，在香港都比大陆便宜，因为大陆价格附加了更高的税。同时，香港的平均收入是大陆的5倍。为什么大陆人不去说服政府降低税赋？没有人，也没有媒体讨论这个问题，所有人都跑到香港去买新款iPhone。
在中国南方居住几年之后，我的印象是很多中产阶级大陆人选择逃避社会问题，转道香港，而不是设法寻求改善大陆状况的方法。回避要比直面问题更加简单，但是问题如果娱乐业多，大陆的穷人必将遭殃。
如果中国可以主办一届昂贵的奥运会，能把探测器送上月球，能建造航空母舰，他们就当然可以改善食品安全，接受更低的税赋。但是抗议者在哪儿？敢于批评政府的报纸编辑在哪儿？大陆报纸总是会批评香港人虐待大陆人，但没有一家报纸敢于说“如果我们把自己的问题解决，我们就不需要跑到香港去。”所以，大陆人不但对他们给香港造成的麻烦视而不见，对自己应当做的事情也一无所知。
我认为香港人愤怒的部分原因在于，大陆人不愿意去解决自身的问题，转而到香港来发泄，造成过分拥挤和资源的稀缺。这并不是说香港因此有权虐待大陆游客，但是大陆人应该意识到，通过推动自己的政府，他们也可以建造一个像香港一样有吸引力的社会。这并不简单，但是他们的子孙后代都可以享受泽被。
Amitofo Li：
根据我在报纸和电视节目上了解到的信息，我认为香港人的情绪和北京、上海等中国大城市居民的情绪完全一样。北京和上海的居民也对于外来人口颇为不满。“他们推高房价和其它商品价格；他们疯狂涌入城市，抢走我们的工作，让城市越来越拥挤；他们不讲卫生，到处吐痰，让我们的城市变得肮脏、丑陋。”这样的抱怨一直存在。
北京市政府说，北京精神之一就是包容。我认为，包容是一个国际大都市所需要具备的基本品质。但是北京足够包容吗？我们还需要继续努力。
这仅仅是我对北京的观点，我觉得香港也与此类似。
Anonymous：
我相信中国大陆一定有很多有礼貌、受过良好教育、谦虚的人。可惜的是，这些人没有明确、自然地展示在众人面前。而那些举止粗鲁的人得到了众人的关注。我看到过一些例子！
我的妻子怀孕了，在地铁里，一个女人使劲挤她。我的妻子让她小心，不要碰到自己，她已经怀孕了。那个女人用大陆口音说她才应该小心，非常粗鲁。
我曾经遭遇过插队、拥挤、不管不顾，还见到过公共场所的高声喧哗、小便，甚至大便。这或许仅仅是少数人的行为，但是的确有太多的中国大陆人举止没有教养，无论是在香港还是在其它地方，就像那些举止优雅的人一样多。
Sheng Li：
所有人？我不这么想。
实际上在中国，每个省份的人都有理由讨厌其它省份的人。
地区矛盾并不罕见，尤其是香港和大陆，它们是两个完全不同的体制。
Joel Chung：
“有些”香港人抱怨中国大陆，是因为他们感到生活遭到了威胁。香港人不那么爱讲话，如果他们真的在公共场合直言不讳，说明他们已经不能再忍受了。一个讲话的香港人意味着还有更多的沉默者支持他/她的观点。
我了解香港是个移民城市，欢迎各地游客。但是，80平方公里的面积每年涌入4000万到5000万大陆游客，必然会让大部分香港人的生活受到影响。当然，有些人，尤其是有权有势的人，喜欢大陆人，但是大部分香港人绝不能忍受环境的恶化。
Anonymous：
实际上，我认为一些香港人早在大陆游客造访香港之前就已经不喜欢中国大陆人了，尤其是50年代中国人逃往香港之后。游客是主要的一个原因，但还有更深层次的历史问题。
1，他们挨过饿，遭受过文化大革命的冲击。大部分人对共产党的印象是残暴的，中国在他们看来就是地狱，所以中国人都是邪恶的。
2，香港被英国殖民，得到了现代化发展的机会。与此相比，中国大陆还处于初级发展水平。与大量粗鲁、不文明的中国人相比，大部分香港人的确受教育水平更高。他们必然认为自己高人一等，看不起中国大陆。
3，在香港的经济蓬勃发展的时期，香港与中国大陆之间存在着巨大的收入差距。香港被认为是一座金山，很多人倾家荡产也要来香港。一部分人在香港成功了，也有一部分人并不富裕，但即使如此，他们也可以在中国过帝王一样的生活。但是，当中国的GDP迅速增长，一切都变了。当国王走下宝座，必然会伴随着沮丧。很多把房屋卖掉的人非常后悔，因为现在会值更多的钱。他们因此而憎恨中国大陆。
香港是一个梦想中的城市，我的很多好朋友都是香港人，我的一些亲戚也曾逃往香港。几十年前，我家乡的很多房屋都是香港人的。我母亲的公司很不喜欢与香港卡车司机打交道，因为他们很傲慢。这仅仅是我自己的所见所闻，或许不大好听，但这是事实。
Yi Huang：
很久很久以前，你还是个婴儿
你有一个父亲，他很穷
为了生活，你找到了另外一个父亲
新的父亲名叫英国
1997年，你长大成人
回到了你亲生父亲的怀抱
不同的习俗，同样的面孔，一个大家庭
我想就应该是这回事。
Billy Wu：
在中国，有些人就是不喜欢外来人口，比如，广州人就不喜欢北方人。我想这主要是因为他们只关注缺点，北方人讲话的确比较大声，也不大讲卫生。但是我想，随着时间推移，中国的实力在提升，这个问题就不存在了。
原文：
I am not a Hong Konger. The Hong Kongers I know are pleasant people to be friends with. Chinese tourists flood Hong Kong to spend money which bring prosperity. This is not really a bad thing.
What are the reasonable reasons for Hong Kongers to dislike mainland Chinese? For the sake of discussion, please refrain on making personal attacks on groups of people unless there are good reasons.
Michael Hui, speaks Cantonese and Mandarin
Well I never dislike them. If my 4-member family's characters are totally different, I don't think I can say all 13 billion behave the same and be disliked blindly. Back to your question that should pinpoint mainland Chinese tourists in HK: to be fair, it's not new that Chinese tourists flood to everywhere from Hong Kong to Antarctica. Whether they are welcome or disliked should be debatable in every place; Hong Kong is no exception.
One fact to say is Hong Kong has been changed tremendously and involuntarily by them since 2003 (more precisely 1997 but before 2003 mainland Chinese cannot come w/o taking organized trips thus interactions were limited). With at least 35 million people coming to a single city each year, there has to be feelings, mixed feelings about these tourists from HK people. I'm sure while there are benefits from them: the tourism industry does create lots of job and business opportunities, there are also losses resulted. Some of the big ones are:
1, Shopping: local businesses from noodle shops to banks give away precious floorspaces to jewelry and watches shops that target these tourists. HKese have to change their shopping habit to avoid shopping in major tourist areas such as TST or Causeway Bay.
2, Transportations: MTRs get crowded from 8am till 11pm daily, forcing local people to cramp with other tourists (and create conflicts), or change other transportation means.
3, Baby needs: Fearing of the baby care products made in China, many mainland Chinese come to HK purely for purchasing these products made elsewhere in the world. As a result, there used to be (and still have occassionally) shortages of baby milk powder products that caused fears to local HK families with babies / children.
4, Realty market: The most devastating part (though controversal) is the real estate market where it is believed that many housing purchases by mainland Chinese have resulted in prices keeping in all-time-high. Many HK people have huge issues with housing needs.
The old idiom in Chinese 衣食住行: Clothings, food, living, and transports, say they are the basic needs of human. When one is not directly benefited from these tourists but directly affected by them on how / where one buys clothes, consumes food, lives, and transports, it is no surprise that negative feelings would be generated.
I think it's the fate of a business-ruled city: ones that generate profit flourish while others suffer.
Logan Yang
I'm answering from the perspective of a mainland student who studied in a HK college. Most of the HKers I met were extremely friendly and warm-hearted to me, no matter what background they have, professors, students, doctors and nurses, or just average people on the street. I didn't feel I was excluded from them in any way and I was grateful for this. It is one of the reasons I love HK as a second hometown to me. I believe this inclusiveness is one of the core competence of such a great city of immigrants. And I also believe the protestors insulting the mainlanders are just minority in HK.
I'm originally from Beijing. As a native Beijinger, I had never felt that people from other places should not keep coming to Beijing, until recent years there were so many uncivilized behaviors and the number of people is skyrocketing, making it nearly impossible to move around by any means of transportation. It's perfectly natural that the local people shall feel unpleasant when their normal life is negatively affected by the flood of newcomers, no matter they are tourists or immigrants. The city's dynamics and infrastructure have a limit given a point in time, and when the equilibrium is broken, it either tends to fall back, or it would be reluctantly pushed to a new equilibrium by force.
Take education for instance. Some claim that 80% of the graduate students in HK are mainland students, HK students are deprived of the right for higher education. For me as an undergrad years ago, I didn't have to speak any Cantonese all year long if I didn't want to. I could speak English to professors and only hang out with the hundreds of mainland students around me. Yes it is the current state of higher education in HK. If you ask me if it's fair for HK students, I don't know how to answer. Mainland students are really smart and good at studying, may get much better score in exams than local students. It's simply because they are best of the best back in mainland schools and the smart people in mainland together might be a number comparable to the whole population in HK. And what's more, mainland students are paying much higher tuition fees. But if HK allows more smart students into HK, there wouldn't be much room for local students in advanced education. I definitely agree that HK government should give its local students enough chances here, but how much exactly they should set the percentage at? It's really hard to say, it's one of their hottest debates.
Change is always painful both for individuals and for the city. In Beijing, I won't be aggressive towards the newcomers just because they made my life less comfortable. Every one has the right to live wherever they want as long as they have what it takes to immigrate legally. It should not be me or any one to decide, it should be the government, taking into account the current saturation point of the city and the collective voices, how to make immigration, education or tourism policies. One thing is sure, there should be a limit, set legally and as fair as possible, which can change given more chances and better infrastructure the future will provide.
Richard Warfield
To a large extent what you see is not "Hong Kongers hating mainlanders", but rather "Hong Kongers hating what the tsunami of mainland tourists is doing to Hong Kong".
Hong Kong gets around 50 million tourists from the Mainland every year, and the government recently projected this would rise to 100 million within 9 years. To put this number in perspective, France is the most popular tourist destination in the world, and it gets only 83 million visitors a year (for the entire country!).
The effects of this huge and rapidly rising flood of tourists is visible everywhere, particularly in crowding on the streets in central districts and in public transit, and in the changing mix of retail establishments (away from locally oriented shops and restaurants, and towards luxury retailers favored by mainland tourists).
While some groups have benefited immensely from rising tourist numbers (particularly luxury brands and retail landlords), many others feel they are getting a raw deal.
Joseph Wang
One note. Things in HK move *fast*. The mood here right now is very different than it was in late-2012. One of the big differences was Edward Snowden who changed a lot of things about HK. Snowden left HK a very different city than when he arrived, and if ever you don't think that one person can't make a different. He is a counterexample.
Most of us really don't.
You aren't going to get a reasonable answer, but I react very strong against anti-Mainlander talk here, because anti-Mainlander -> anti-immigrant, and I'm a "new Hong Konger". Living here right now, I think that the view of HK people in the media (i.e. Apple Daily) is very distorted.
Something that I read a lot about is how Hong Kong people dislike Mainlanders, but I've not really seen too many cases of this. Yes, it does happen, but what I think is more the case is that people in Hong Kong who dislike Mainlanders write a lot in the Apple Daily and the SCMP, whereas people in Hong Kong who either like or are indifferent to Mainlanders tend to keep quiet so people don't know that they exist.
For example, the internet screams about how *crowded* all of the parks and restaurants are. I'd think that the owners of the restaurants and parks wouldn't mind that at all. OMG, there are too many tourists here and they are spending too much money!!!! Rents are too high because all of these Mainlanders are spending money!!! Yes its a problem, but I don't think that most real estate people object.
You can't please everyone. HK has wonderful freedom of speech so people that don't like things have the freedom to complain, but people that don't complain are quiet, and if you listen only to the people that complain, you are going get a very distorted view of things.
For example, China does not "control" the CE and the Legislative Council. It so happens that the Hong Kong government is controlled by local tycoons and business interests. Now it happens that local tycoons and business interests are extremely "pro-China" so they work with Beijing rather than against Beijing, but that's something different from saying that China controls the HK government.
The fact of the matter is that Hong Kong is part of China, and Hong Kong's future lies with China. That fact makes people nervous so that you see people reacting against that, but that's the economic and political reality. People that really don't like this make a lot of noise. People who accept this, don't make noise because they don't have to.
I really do think that while there is a kernel of tension, the news media makes things seem way, way more bad than they are. Yes, people will complain about the tourists, but it's that level of annoyance, but this isn't Lebanon. We are talking about people venting their frustrations on facebook.
There are some ironies:
1) One irony is that people seem so insistent on protecting Hong Kong culture, when in fact this was a barren island 150 years ago, and a port with no great significance before the revolution on the Mainland drove vast numbers of immigrants into Hong Kong. Any xenophobia is crazy because HK is an immigrant city.
2) Hong Kong and the Mainland will converge. I do think that what we will end up with is going to look more like Hong Kong than the Mainland. I think that part of the reason that HK people are disturbed by Mainlanders is that it looks a lot like Hong Kong did in 1950.
3) Complaining about the Mainland is often a way of complaining about other Hong Kong people. It's politically incorrect in Hong Kong to complain about the tycoons and the bankers in Central, so people complain about Beijing.
More information about the politics of immigration in HK. The interesting thing about the anti-Mainlander sentiment in HK is that they have no political voice. The pro-establishment parties are pro-Beijing, the democrats are divided among the moderate democrats and the radical democrats. The moderate democrats are "China needs democracy" people, and the radical democrats who are anti-tycoon are some of the most pro-immigrant people here. It's been the radical democrats that have been fighting for permanent residency for Indonesian and Filipino maids. The courts have been consistently pro-immigrant. The Apple Daily plays up suspicion of immigrants, but even they've pulled back when it seems to go too far. The trouble is that once you start down that road, it gets very, very ugly very quickly.
Now the irony is that the most consistent ally for anti-Mainlander sentiment has been Beijing. Beijing will do anything to keep HK happy, and so Beijing has overruled the HK courts when it came to removing restrictions on immigration. All HK has to do to stop tourism and immigration is to just do it. HK has the authority to close the borders, but people realize that doing that would cut HK's throat. And you can't please everyone. People were complaining about how mainlander were pushing up property prices (no talk about HK's screwed up land system). The government put in curbs. Within two months, you had real estate agents going out on strike.
Blaming immigrants for all the problems is convenient because immigrants don't vote and have no voice. The truth of the matter is that Mainlanders get blamed for a lot of things that are not their fault. Land prices are too high. Pollution is a mess. People are worried about jobs, and the political system is elitist and unresponsive. However, none of these issues have anything to do with immigrants or Mainlanders. Like immigrants everywhere they are just a convienent scapegoat.
The trouble is that HK constitutionally has to be an "international financial center" and there is a limit to how much immigrant bashing you can do. It's also the fact that there is a lot of sympathy for Mainlanders. Look at pictures of HK from the 1950's. All the people that want to get into HK (and are ending up in Shenzhen), they were the people that came over the border in the 1950's.
HK is a liberal society, and people have freedom of speech. I think it is good to hear people complain, but it's important for people to realize that there is more than one side of the story, and one thing that I dislike about how the Western press covers this is that they are very superficial, and they don't accurately reflect the differences of opinion in HK. Yes, I'm not seeing all of HK, but the part I'm seeing is so different than what's in the press, that I have to say something.
One thing that every society needs is new blood. I get very annoyed and impatient when people talk as if HK is dead and how it is dying. If it's broken then fix it. HK has a shot at being the number #1 financial center on the world, and not only the leader of finance in China, but the leader on Planet Earth. We can not only beat Singapore and Shanghai. We can beat London and New York City. We don't copy Silicon Valley. We'll be better than Silicon Valley.
This is crazy talk, but some times what you need is someone fresh off the boat with crazy ideas and crazy vision. That's probably why the Immigration Department handed me a visa and a residency card.
Cyrus Cheung
Hong Kong people raising the British flag, telling mainlanders to 'get lost'.
It is natural that there be conflict when two groups of people coming from different cultural backgrounds are suddenly mixed together. The animosity that is displayed by Hong Kong people towards mainlanders is caused by a mixture of arrogance, due to what they perceive to be superior upbringing and development, and a latent fear towards what mainlanders represent (the CCP).
Hong Kong is a strange blend of East and West. The political and legal structure of the city was developed along British lines, but the vast majority of the population has always been of Chinese ethnicity.
Thus you have a society that was primarily Chinese with it's traditional Confucian values (respect for elders and for authority) with the liberal values (individuals should have certain rights) that were imported from Britain. Values change over time, and they change especially fast during times of rapid economic development. Needless to say, Hong Kong's culture is quite unique and is partially a result of its economic success - people value hard work, and view the success of the city as just reward for their labor. Efficiency is valued above all else, but traditional manners were still seen as a mark of an educated person.
Another important characteristic of was its affinity to the West. Growing up in Hong Kong in the 90s, there was a sense of admiration for the West and for Britain especially. The British were not especially cruel to the native Chinese population after the 60s, unlike say in India. Rapid economic growth gave the colonial government a lot of goodwill. The last governor Patten also implemented a number of political reforms, including the implementation of a directly elected legislative body.
China walked a very different path. People like to say that China has the longest surviving culture, but this is patently untrue - the 33 years of almost continuous warfare (from around 1916 - 1949) destroyed a lot of what used to be Chinese culture. The Communist takeover forced the upper and middle classes abroad to Hong Kong, Taiwan and South East Asia.
I'm not a huge fan of Confucianism. Confucius taught that one should always respect authority and your elders （孝 and 忠）. This was probably not at all conducive to innovation Nevertheless, it placed a lot of emphasis on benevolence and on etiquette. A gentleman had to be cultured. The Cultural Revolution destroyed the vestiges of this tradition, and Chinese society has been trying to recover it's values ever since. What you were left with essentially was a population of uneducated peasants.
(Nietzsche would have a field day trying to analyze the genealogy of morals in China).
The Cultural Revolution destroyed what was left of traditional Chinese culture, and China finally started to rebuild after Mao's death. 'Dengism' filled the void of Confucian values in China. During the 3rd Plenary Session of the 11th Central Committee of the Communist Party of China in 1978, Deng Xiaoping announced that 'to get rich was glorious'. The country opened up to the global economy and China has grown at 15%+ rates for 20 years. There was a whole class of newly minted wealthy people, as well as a smaller group of the mega-rich, who essentially grew up during or after the cultural revolution, and were taught that traditional values like loyalty, respect and etiquette were evil, and that money was all that mattered.
This is a gross simplification of what happened in China, but the rapid economic development was not accompanied by a parallel development in values. In a way this was to be expected of a country born of China's circumstances - Hong Kongers were the same in the 70s (spitting on the streets etc.). Yet people see what they want to see, and do not make an effort in trying to understand each other. With the integration of Hong Kong as an SAR, travel to and from China was made a lot easier, and mainlanders began to flood into the colony with their newfound wealth.
That's the mainland Simba!
Issues HK people have with mainlanders
Here are some of the complaints Hong Kong people have with mainlanders (there's actually a tumblr on this: Reasons Why We Hate 為何香港人討厭大陸人):
There have been reports of pregnant Chinese mothers travelling to Hong Kong to illegally give birth in Hong Kong. Children born in Hong Kong are given HK citizenship. As a result, there have been cases where Hong Kong mothers were forced to give birth in the corridor due to a shortage of beds.
Mainlanders carry their luggage everywhere. This seemingly trivial matter is actually a huge annoyance in the city with the densest population in the world.
Mainlanders have been buying up everything in Hong Kong, driving prices up. Property prices in particular have been a particular sticking point, and the issue of mainlanders vacuuming up all the baby milk formula in Hong Kong has been so critical that the mainland government has imposed a quota on how much milk powder each individual can bring back home to China.
Mainlanders spit on the floor, smoke in non smoking areas, there has even been a report of a baby taking a dump on the metro. Needless to say, this does not generate a lot of good will for our Chinese brethren.
Hong Kong people singing a song to harass mainlanders, calling them locusts.
Issues mainlanders have with Hong Kong
Mainlanders do not understand why Hong Kong people feel so much animosity towards them. People naturally dislike those who dislike them, especially when they believe such hostility is unjustified.
The belief that Hong Kong is a part of China, and that the people of Hong Kong should show more respect to China. This is the China century after all.
It is relatively more difficult for mainlanders to cross into Hong Kong then the other way around. In fact, HK people are issued a card which allows them to enter the mainland at any time. Mainlanders need to get a visa to go to Hong Kong. It is quite ironic that Hong Kong requires a visa for visitors from China whilst it does not for most other countries. I believe this is a particular sticking point for mainlanders.
Related to point 2, the belief that Hong Kong people should learn mandarin and adopt mainland customs. The fact that Hong Kong people is holding on to their own unique culture, customs and language is seen as a sign of disrespect.
The belief that economic success deserves respect. It is true that China is fueling Hong Kong's economy, and mainlanders resent Hong Kong for not showing any gratitude for this.
Peking University professor calls Hong Kong people 'dogs'
ExACerbating the problem from HK's point of view is the fact that China holds all the cards in this relationship. This is not a relationship between equals. I would say that Hong Kong people are actually very scared of losing their freedoms. It has mostly been left alone to govern (China's government has had bigger fish to fry - WTO, SARS, Olympics, Bo and now Zhou), but if push comes to shove, the HK government will have to obey party. Power grows out out the barrel of a gun, and the party controls the gun, at least right now.
The Chief Executive in HK is 'elected' by a group of several hundred Communist officials and prominent local businessmen, amongst 2 or 3 candidates, all of whom are acceptable to the mainland government. Around half of the legislative body is directly elected by the HK population, and the other half is appointed by the Communist party.
I also would like to add that the problems between Hong Kong and the mainland are not unique. There are similar problems between Shanghai and the rest of China, and Beijing and the rest of China. Shanghai people are also known to be very contemptuous of Chinese from other parts of China. Economic and cultural differences will always breed conflict; it's just in Hong Kong's case, the differences are more pronounced, and the relationship between the two escalated more suddenly.
People from Hong Kong need to understand that mainlanders suffered through a lot of turmoil during the 20th century (which wasn't really that long ago), and that it takes time for people to rediscover their own values. Spitting or littering on the street was not so uncommon even 10 years ago amongst HKers. Chinese mothers coming over to HK so that their children could be born as Chinese - it's completely understandable that a mother would do anything so their child can have a better life, no? Mainlanders need to understand that Hong Kongers do not see themselves as Chinese; at least not as mainlanders, and that at the end of the day, wealth really isn't everything.
Elliott Chen
It's pretty simple: Hong Kong doesn't want to become like the mainland.
For 99 years Hong Kong was independent from the mainland under British rule. In that time, it developed a distinct hybrid Chinese and Western personality, entertainment industry, food, culture, business environment, and even language.
So now with the reunification, Mainlanders are associated with the Mainland which is forcing it's politics, culture, and even language (Hong Kongers are very protective of Cantonese) down Hong Konger throats. So some Hong Kongers dislike the Mainlanders for what they see as encroachment and destruction of native Hong Kong culture.
It doesn't help that some Mainlanders act in a uncouth and obnoxious manner, but they pretty much do this everywhere around the world, not just Hong Kong (see case of Mainland guy graffiting the Pyramids in Egypt: Teen Defaces Ancient Egyptian Temple).
As a former Hong Konger myself who has lived in China, I sympathize with both sides logically, but my heart remains with the Hong Kongers. Mainlanders please treat our city respectfully, understand that we want to speak Cantonese first, and appreciate that though we are all Chinese, Hong Kong is not the same as the mainland.
Adam Supernant
The unwillingness of mainlanders to lobby their own government for changes ends up causing many headaches in Hong Kong for Hong Kong residents
It's well known that many mainland mothers prefer to give birth in HK legally or illegally so their child has access to better welfare and education benefits. Who doesn't want their child to receive the best? But how often do you see mainland mothers protest local governments to improve welfare systems or schools for their own children? It never happens, or it just happens on a very small scale. Many simply escape to Hong Kong.
Last year there was a problem with massive amounts of baby formula being bought up in Hong Kong and sold over the border. A major reason for this was because food safety in the mainland is not as advanced as that in Hong Kong. Why don't mainlanders protest their government agencies to improve this? Every time there is a food crisis in the mainland, some people get a little angry, then simply buy safer products from HK. This is the easy way out.
Luxury goods, electronics, and even household products like soap and toothpaste, are frequently much cheaper in Hong Kong than in the mainland because mainland taxes are much higher. Meanwhile, Hong Kong's average income is over 5x that of the mainland. Why don't mainlanders lobby their government to lower excessive taxes? No individuals or newspapers will take up this cause, everyone just rushes to Hong Kong for a new iPhone.
My impression after living in south China for several years is that many middle class mainlanders choose to run from societal problems and find the solution in Hong Kong instead of seeking to improve conditions for their neighbors in the mainland. Running away is easier than confronting the problem, but as a result these problems fester, and the poorest mainlanders suffer the most.
If China can host an enormously expensive Olympics, send probes to the moon, and build aircraft carriers, they can certainly improve food safety and afford to lower taxes. But where are the protests? Where are the newspaper editorials criticizing government responses to these problems? Mainland newspapers are happy to criticize Hong Kongers for their poor treatment of mainlanders, but not a single paper is brave enough to say "If we fixed our problems here, we wouldn't need to crowd into Hong Kong". As a whole, mainlanders seem ignorant to their own plight and also the problems they cause in Hong Kong
I believe part of the anger seen in Hong Kong is due to the unwillingness of mainlanders to fix their own problems, and instead seek refuge in Hong Kong, leading to overcrowding and stretching of scarce resources. This doesn't mean Hong Kongers have a right to treat innocent mainland tourists poorly. But mainlanders have to realize that by pressuring their own government, they could eventually build a society just as attractive as Hong Kong. It won't be easy, but it will be around for their children and grandchildren to enjoy.
Amitofo Li
As far as what I read and learnd from newpapers and TV programs, I think the moods in HK are totally the same as the moods in mega cities like Beijing and Shanghai in Mainland China. Residents in Beijing and Shanghai have long had the similar discontent against people from other places. "They push up the appartment prices, make everything being more expensive; they are madly edging into our city, taking away our job, making our city extremely overcrowded; they have bad sanitary habits, spit everywhere, making our city messy and ugly." These kind of complaints do always exist.
I suppose all mega cities around the world should be facing the same problems. But it appears Americans are easier to accept these than us Chinese. Maybe, thousands of years of restriction of people's mobility makes people dislike people from other places, maybe other traditions make people despise others who is inferior in good manners or civilized extent. I don't know. But in my opinion the moods itself is not reasonable. In modern society, no big city can be self-supported. No outcomers no city's prosperity, this is the natural rule that nobody can change it.
The Beijing municipal government says that one of Beijing spirit is inclusiveness. I think inclusiveness is one of the basic virtues to be an international city, but is Beijing inclusive enough? I think we should continue to make effort for it.
These are my views primarily for Beijing, but I think Hongkong's case is similar.
Anonymous
I am sure there is a lot of polite, well educated and humble mainland Chinese people.
Unfortunately, they don't show up clearly, naturally, but those who are ill behaved stand out clearly. And I have seen some examples!
My wife is pregnant, and while in the train, some woman pushed her hard. My wife asked her to please take care not to push her, as she was pregnant. That woman responded in mainland Chinese that she could just tuck her stomach in, in a very rude way.
I have been jumped in line so many times, pushed, ignored and seen shouting, peeing and even pooing in public places.
It might be the few who make it bad for the many, but for sure, there are a lot of ill behaved mainland Chinese, in Hong Kong as well as other places, as well as there are nice ones.
Peter Zhang
We don't like change. Hongkongers enjoy a very unique culture that we take pride in (whether it's actually true or not), and the huge influx of Mainlanders recently have disrupted a lot of aspects of how we live.
A Hongkonger author recently answered this in a really popular blogpost, describing some observations around him, especially about the "changes" brought by Mainland. It's translated here: The Dusk of Australia Dairy Co.
Sheng Li
All? I don't think so.
In fact,in China，every province has reasons to hate other province.
Regional conflicts is normal. Especially Hong Kong and mainland are two different systems.
Joel Chung
'Some' Hong Kong people complain about Chinese Mainlanders because they feel that their way of life is threatened. Hong Kong people are quite restrained in terms of being vocal on issues. If they find their way out to say something in public, it is because they just can't stand that thing anymore. Also, one vocal Hong Konger would really mean few silent ones stand behind him/her that share the same opinion.
I understand that Hong Kong is an immigrant city and an open city that welcome tourists. However, the current situation of letting 40-50M of Mainland travellers to Hong Kong, a city of 7M, on annual basis has reached a point that most Hong Kong residents' livelihood have been affected. Certainly, some people, especially those have money and power, would welcome the mainlanders, but the majority of Hong Kong people cannot tolerate the worsen situation indefinitely.
Anonymous
Actually, I believe that some HKers already dislike mainland Chinese before the Chinese tourist flood, especially people escape to Hong Kong from 1950s. Tourists is one of the significant reason about this problem, but there are also have historical reasons.
1. They have suffered from starving and cultural revolution. Most of them impressed about the the cruel environment under the control of CCP. China for them is hell, so simply Chinese are evil.
2. Hong Kong has colonized by British. It brought modernization to Hong Kong. And at the same time, mainland China still in a lower level of modernization. Compared with great mount of mainland Chinese still rude and uncivilized, most HKers are educated. Therefore, they do consider themselves as superior Chinese and some of them look down upon mainland Chinese.
3. When the economy in Hong Kong was booming, it made a huge gap of income between mainland China and Hong Kong. Hong Kong was treated as a goldern mountain. Most of people sold all they have in order to arrived in Hong Kong. Some of them successful in Hong Kong, but some of them are still not rich, even through they are poor in Hong Kong, but rich in China. HK dollar was much valued than Yuan and it can help them to live like a king. However, when Chinese GDP increasing rapidly, everything is change. It is depress when a king fell from his seat. And most people who sold their house and land are regretting, it will get much more return if they keep it. It is reasonable for them to dislike mainland Chinese.
HK is my dream city and some of my good friends are HKers. Some of my relative are one of people escaped to HK. There are a lot of houses in my hometown were belong to HKers few decades ago. Most of the time, dealing with truck drivers from HK is a tough mission in my mother's company because their arrogance. It is all my personal opinion based on what I heard and what I saw. Some may be tough, but it is exist.
Yi Huang
long long ago,you are a baby
you have a father,and he very poor
for life, you just change the father
the new father is England
and in 1997,you are a man
you have be return to your the first father.
difference custom(sense?), same people, and one family(government).
I think it is like that.
^My English is no good,sorry ^
Billy Wu
In China, some person will hate the people who is come from other city, etc: some GuangZhou person do not like the people come from north China.
I think it is because they are just focus the bad thing they saw.
the people in north china usually like talking loudly.
they also pay no attention to hygiene.
but I think any year past, and Chinese quality is rise up, this is not problem any more.
|
|
狗仔卡
发表于 2015-3-11 08:57
提升卡
变色卡
抢沙发
千斤顶
显身卡
发表于 2015-3-11 09:06
发表于 2015-3-11 09:06
