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[社会] 我军透明的太快,专责中国事物的美议员开始抱怨国防部的情报太慢了!

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发表于 2011-5-10 20:11 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
本帖最后由 diver18 于 2011-5-10 20:24 编辑

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我军透明的太快,专责中国事物的美议员开始抱怨国防部的情报太慢了!
我不敢说我军发展的太快,但透明度肯定是开放的太快了!

James Randy Forbes
Virginia的共和党议员,众议院军事委员会委员,军事委员会战备分委员会主席,国会中国核心小组(Congressional China Caucus)创始人。

他抱怨了国防部连续延误提供情报并列举了。。。(请参见原文),还特别强调了 “Y-7 AWACS?” 运-7预警机。
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http://www.informationdissemination.net

In Search of the 2011 DoD Report on China's Military
The following is available here in PDF format.

Dear Secretary Gates:

As Chairman of the Subcommittee on Readiness of the House Armed Services Committee, charged with providing oversight of the Department of Defense, and as founded and co-Chair of the Congressional China Caucus, I am concerned with the Department of Defense's continued disregard for the legal submittal deadline for the required Annual Report to Congress on the Military and Security Developments Involving the People's Republic of China. Pursuant to Section 1202 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2000, you shall submit not later than March 1 each year, a report on the current and future military strategy of the People's Republic of China. To date, no such report has been submitted to the specified congressional committees for the Fiscal Year 2011.

Last year, this report was submitted to Congress six months after its required legal deadline, a deadline that was set so as to provide vital information on China's intentions and capabilities to Congress as it begins the national defense authorization process each spring. This year, once again, Congress is beginning its discussion of the National Defense Authorization Act without this tool to understand the Department of Defense's perspective on China.

Since the delayed submission of last year's report, China has made considerable advancements in military capability. In late 2010, China began the process of deploying an anti-ship ballistic missile, the DF-21D, capable of targeting U.S. aircraft carriers within one thousand miles of the Chinese coast. The DF-21D event was followed by the January test of China's J-20, the nation's first stealth jet-fighter. Then, in March and April we learned that China has neared completion of its first aircraft carrier and is developing the new J-15 jet-fighter designed for carrier development. Considered separately, each of these advancements has enormous implications for U.S. military planning. In the aggregate, they mark an unprecedented era of Chinese military modernization. Yet Congress is left without guidance from the Department of Defense on such advancements as it considers the preparedness of our forces to respond.

Since this report was first produced in 2002, it has been routinely submitted to Congress months after the legal deadline. The most recent precedent set by last year's delay of six months is unacceptable. As my colleagues and I begin considering a range of proposals within the NDAA, we do so without the Department of Defense's analysis of the significant developments in China's military capability over the last six months. By failing to meet the report's legally required deadline, the Department of Defense is not meeting its obligation to properly inform Congress of readiness needs and emerging challenges in the Western Pacific.

As the head of the Department of Defense, you are responsible for ensuring that this matter receives top-down attention. I, like you, share the goal of a strong, efficient and effective national defense that protects our nation from current threats and deters the threats of the future. For Congress to support our Armed Forces in that goal, it is imperative that the Department of Defense provide timely reports on the nature of those threats. I look forward to continuing to work with you in this regard.

J. Randy Forbes
Member of Congress


The China report has a hit and miss record, and by that I note that it is often what it does not say that is most telling. The DoD is trying to fit China into their narrative, and that narrative is political. The facts as they are known always leak through, but rarely do the reports demonstrate any consistency with which any Congressman should base a budget on them. I will say the China military report has been getting better the last two years, but the ONI China report on the PLA Navy is usually better than the DoD report on the PLA Navy. I don't know the reason for that.

Here is a list of items the China Military Report will hopefully cover that will raise eyebrows.

DF-21D goes IOC. I honestly wonder if the DoD Military Report on China this year will be as comprehensive as this article from Andrew Erickson on the DF-21D. I doubt it.

Shi Lang Sea Trials. We are only a few months, or several weeks depending upon how you look at it, from the first sea trials of the Chinese aircraft carrier Shi Lang. A lot of people are worked up over this, but of the things China is doing this one doesn't really bother me. This carrier is a bridge, the USS Langley of China.

New Aircraft Carriers. All signs in the open source now point to China building at least one aircraft carrier at the Jiangnan Changxing Shipyard. The question is whether there are signs a second aircraft carrier preparing to be built there, or at Dalian shipyard. Only the DoD report can tell us if the second carrier is under construction. This matters, because it is the difference between China having 3 aircraft carriers at sea by 2020, or five aircraft carriers at sea by 2020.

Since I intend to still be writing in 2020, I'll go ahead and say it. My impression is, based on the upgrades to the shipyards and the way 5-year plans have worked out over the last ten years, China is building 2 carriers in each five year plan - meaning 4 indigenous design aircraft carriers built and at sea by 2020. When the first aircraft carrier is at sea in 2013 and the second visibly under construction at that time, I'll be sure and let you know I told you so.

China's New Aircraft. The J-15 and J-20 are getting a lot of headlines, but did you see the blurry photos of the Y-7 AWACS? The J-15 and J-20 are important, but what the Y-7 tells us is much more critical towards our planning metrics in the budget. Will the DoD report discuss the Y-7 and what it represents for the future? It damn well better, or Congress isn't getting their money's worth from the DoD.

Shipbuilding Outpaces DoD Report. Have you read Ronald O’Rourke's April 22, 2011 China Naval Modernization: Implications for U.S. Navy Capabilities—Background and Issues for Congress (PDF) Congressional Research Service Report? In several places in the report Ronald O'Rourke borrows from the most recent DoD China military report the estimates for Chinese shipbuilding. Page 22, for example, shows China will build 1 Yuan class in 2010 and 0 Yuan class in 2011 for a total of 3 by 2011. There is a problem though, it looks like at least 5 and maybe 6 Yuan class submarines are in the water based on photos from the shipyards. Page 34 shows a Janes chart with the PLA Navy fielding eight Type 054As by 2012. One problem though, Feng highlighted last week that the eleventh Type 054A is about to launch from HP shipyard (the 6th built there alone). The same is true for virtually every platform, and explains why the DoD added 40 Type 022s to last years report to catch up to the actual number of Type 022s that had already been fielded.

What is Congress going to do when the President cuts $400 billion in October while the DoD decides to add a dozen extra PLA Navy destroyers and frigates the following April just to catch up with the amount of construction that was previously not disclosed? That transparency thing... it matters.

China White Paper 2010. For China, the 2010 Whitepaper is about as transparent as it gets. It has a long way to go, but the DoD report must add context to the following (from the whitepaper):
A few notable goals and tasks of China’s national defense in the new era are defined as follows:
Safeguarding national sovereignty, security and interests of national development. China’s national defense is tasked to guard against and resist aggression, defend the security of China’s lands, inland waters, territorial waters and airspace, safeguard its maritime rights and interests, and maintain its security interests in space, electromagnetic space and cyber space.
Maintaining social harmony and stability. … They organize preparations for military operations other than war (MOOTW) in a scientific way, work out pre-designed strategic programs against non-traditional security threats, reinforce the building of specialized forces for emergency response, and enhance capabilities in counter-terrorism and stability maintenance, emergency rescue, and the protection of security.
Accelerating the modernization of national defense and the armed forces. …[The PLA] intensifies theoretical studies on joint operations under conditions of informationization, advances the development of high-tech weaponry and equipment, develops new types of combat forces, strives to establish joint operation systems in conditions of informationization, accelerates the transition from military training under conditions of mechanization to military training in conditions of informationization, presses ahead with implementation of the strategic project for talented people, invests greater efforts in building a modern logistics capability, and enhances its capabilities in accomplishing diversified military tasks in order to win local wars under the conditions of informationization, so as to accomplish its historical missions at the new stage in the new century.
Maintaining world peace and stability. … China adheres to the concepts of openness, pragmatism and cooperation, expands its participation in international security cooperation, strengthens strategic coordination and consultation with major powers and neighboring countries, enhances military exchanges and cooperation with developing countries, and takes part in UN peace-keeping operations, maritime escort, international counter-terrorism cooperation, and disaster relief operations.
Massive Coastal Security Services Expansion. China has several types of maritime security agencies, all of which are expanding rapidly with bigger and more numerous ships. It is difficult to imagine the DoD can ignore the rapidly expanding Chinese Coast Guard and other maritime security agency vessels, particularly as some of these vessels are as large or larger than the Littoral Combat Ship. At the current rate China will build at least 30 vessels similar to US Coast Guard patrol cutters in the current 5 year plan. Ironic, considering the US Coast Guard is having its budget slashed even though the average age of the US Coast Guard cutter fleet is somewhere north of 39 years old.

I am not a China Hawk. I do not ever want to see the United States go to war with China, because I believe that war will go nuclear. With that said, the lack of transparency by China combined with the military expansion by China is remarkable, and the speed is intimidating.

Since 2005, the DoD report has consistently underestimated the growth of the PLA Navy and China has consistently grown their military budget by double digit percentages every year over the last several years. China's internal security budget alone is now estimated over $115 billion by some estimates, which is easily the largest police state in history and that total is not included in the estimates for China's defense budget - even though it is very much defense type spending.

Until there is more transparency and realism in the Chinese military discussion, it is only prudent to be concerned - as there is no information offered by either the DoD or China to take any other responsible position.
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发表于 2011-5-10 21:13 | 显示全部楼层
美国大爷太难伺候了
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发表于 2011-5-10 21:40 | 显示全部楼层
快的让他们受不了了
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发表于 2011-5-10 21:41 | 显示全部楼层
我总觉得中国敢拿出来的,一般都不是最先进的~~~这时中国人千百年来的习惯~~
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发表于 2011-5-10 22:10 | 显示全部楼层
何不把军委常委会,搬到五角大楼去开?

省得每个月向华盛顿发PPT汇报北京的工作,占用我们屁民网友的带宽。
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发表于 2011-5-10 22:12 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 bigbenANTIcnn 于 2011-5-10 22:22 编辑

几大看点:

1 国防部屡次拖延提交报告,已成老赖令人气愤
Since this report was first produced in 2002, it has been routinely submitted to Congress months after the legal deadline. The most recent precedent set by last year's delay of six months is unacceptable.
从2002年开始,国防部交报告总是在约定时间之后几个月,这还不算过分,去年延迟长达6个月,今年不出意外的又过了约定时间。。。

2 议员抱怨美国海军情报办公室(ONI)的军事报告比国防部(DoD)的要好

I will say the China military report has been getting better the last two years, but the ONI China report on the PLA Navy is usually better than the DoD report on the PLA Navy. I don't know the reason for that.
关于中国军事的报道这两年是变好了,但是我就不知道为什么关于解放军海军的报告,海军情报办公室(ONI)通常要比比国防部(DoD)的好?

3 议员怀疑国防部报告质量不能达到中国通报告水准
I honestly wonder if the DoD Military Report on China this year will be as comprehensive as this article from Andrew Erickson on the DF-21D. I doubt it.

4 议员抱怨Y-7照片质量太糟糕,应该派间谍拍一张清晰的。。。
The J-15 and J-20 are getting a lot of headlines, but did you see the blurry photos of the Y-7 AWACS? The J-15 and J-20 are important, but what the Y-7 tells us is much more critical towards our planning metrics in the budget. Will the DoD report discuss the Y-7 and what it represents for the future? It damn well better, or Congress isn't getting their money's worth from the DoD.
J-15和J-20有很多文字,但是国防部长阁下你注意到那张模模糊糊的Y-7照片没有?J-15和J-20是很重要,但是Y-7同样会告诉我们很多东西。

5 中国海军造船速度超过国防部的报告预测。。。
Shipbuilding Outpaces DoD Report.

6 国防部报告应该从中国政府白皮书里面抄一些内容(议员主动要求被洗脑)
比如说:中国军队有项很重要的2项任务就是:1 维持社会的稳定与和谐,俗称维稳。。。2 维护世界和平与稳定。。。
China White Paper 2010. For China, the 2010 Whitepaper is about as transparent as it gets. It has a long way to go, but the DoD report must add context to the following (from the whitepaper): Maintaining social harmony and stability. Maintaining world peace and stability.

7 不希望和中国打仗,因为无可避免的走向核战。。。
I am not a China Hawk. I do not ever want to see the United States go to war with China, because I believe that war will go nuclear.

PS:
报告里面的那张瓦良格航母图是从国内军事论坛cjdby偷来的,照片拍摄者是cjdby网友上山下乡,
照片上面清清楚楚写着:
本照片只发超大飞扬HSH铁血论坛,任何转载引用必须征得所有者同意
他们是不是化装不认识汉字就可以肆无忌惮的侵犯知识产权?

上山下乡可以问他们要版权费吗?不给可以雇佣律师告美国国会嘛?

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 楼主| 发表于 2011-5-11 07:49 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 diver18 于 2011-5-11 07:56 编辑

几点说明:
1。信 是 议员的
2。图片 及 其下 是 Galrahn的
3。因有新更新,具体链接在:http://www.informationdisseminat ... .html#disqus_thread
4。某营 超大贵宾 che 已经 进行了 N 分钟的辛勤翻译

===========
以下 是 che 作品
===========
尊敬的国防部长盖茨:

由于小组委员会主席对众议院军事委员会提供国防部负责监督,准备,并作为创建和联合主席,国会中国核心小组,我与国防部的持续有关部门无视法律送件截止日期规定的年度报告向国会在军事和安全事态发展涉及人民对中国共和国。根据第2000年会计年度的国防授权法案1202,您应当提交不得迟于每年3月1日,对当前和未来的人民共和国的军事中国战略的报告。迄今为止,没有这样的报告已提交给国会委员会指定为2011财年。

去年,这份报告已提交给国会的半年所需的法定期限后,一个被设定,以提供有关中国的意图和能力的重要信息,因为它开始向国会国防授权过程,每年春天的最后期限。今年,再次,美国国会开始没有这个工具,它的国防授权法案的讨论,了解国防部对中国的角度来处。

自从去年的报告迟交,中国已在军事能力相当的进步。 2010年年底,中国开始了部署反舰弹道导弹的过程中,东风21天,在千瞄准了中国英里海岸美国航空母舰的能力。东风21天活动后对中国的J - 20,全国第一个隐形喷气式战机一月的考验。然后,在三月和四月,我们了解到,中国已接近其第一艘航母完工,并正在开发新的J - 15喷气战斗机为运营商开发设计。分开考虑,这些进步都有美国军事计划产生巨大影响。总体来说,它们标志着中国军事现代化的一个前所未有的时代。然而,国会没有接收到国防部指导等进步,因为它认为,我们的部队准备作出回应。

由于本报告首次在2002年制作,它一直定期向国会提交个月后的法定期限。最近的先例去年的六个月延迟设置是不可接受的。正如我的同事,我开始考虑的范围内NDAA建议,我们没有国防部对中国的军事能力的显着发展的分析部,以便在过去的六个月。由于没能满足该报告的法律规定的期限,国防部没有适当地履行其义务,告知准备需要和西太平洋地区正在出现的挑战大会。

作为美国国防部负责人,您有责任确保这一问题得到自上而下的重视负责。我喜欢你,共享一个强大,有效和有效的国防,保护我们的民族,从当前的威胁阻碍未来的威胁的目标。国会支持这一目标我们的武装部队,但必须指出,国防部提供有关这些威胁的性质,及时报告。我期待着继续与你在这方面的工作。

j的兰迪福布斯
国会议员


在中国报告有一个碰运气的记录,以及由该我注意到,它常常是什么不说是最能说明问题。美国国防部正在努力适应中国的叙事,而叙事是政治性的。在这些被称作总是漏气,但事实很少这样做的报告显示任何一致性,任何国会议员应根据他们的预算。我会说中国军力报告已渐入佳境过去两年,但军情局对中国海军报告通常比在美国国防部的报告好中国人民解放军海军。我不知道理由。

这里是一个在中国的项目清单军事报告,将有望覆盖提高眉毛。

东风21天进入国际奥委会。老实说,我不知道美国国防部的军事报告,今年中国将作为由安德鲁埃里克森,因为这对东风- 21天的文章全面。我对此表示怀疑。

施琅试航。我们只有几个月,或者取决于你如何看待它从中国航母施琅的第一次海上试验中,几个星期。很多人都激动了这一点,但中国的事情是这样做的时候并没有真正困扰我。这个载体是一个桥,中国兰利号航空母舰。

新型航空母舰。在开源现在指向中国建筑在江南长兴船厂至少一个航母所有的迹象。问题是,是否有第二艘航母准备兴建那里,或在大连造船厂的迹象。只有美国国防部的报告可以告诉我们,如果第二个航母正在建设之中。这一点很重要,因为它是到2020年之间中国有3个航母在海上,或五架飞机在海上,到2020年运营商的差异。

由于我打算在2020年仍是写作,我将继续和说。我的印象是,基于对船厂升级和5年计划已经工作了近十年留下来的,中国正在建设2个五年计划,每个运营商 - 这意味着4本国设计建造的航空母舰在海上,到2020年。当第一个航母是在2013年在海上和明显在当时建设的第二,我一定让你知道我告诉你。

中国的新飞机。在J - 15和J - 20已经看到了很多头条新闻,但是你看到的Y - 7预警机的模糊照片吗?在J - 15和J - 20是重要的,但在Y - 7告诉我们的是更对我们的计划,预算指标的关键。美国国防部报告将讨论的Y - 7和它所代表的未来?这绝对做得更好,否则国会不能从美国国防部的钱的价值。

造船赶不上美国国防部的报告。你读过罗纳德奥罗克的2011年4月22日中国海军现代化:为美国海军能力,背景和议题的大会(PDF格式)美国国会研究服务报告的影响?在报告罗纳德奥罗克从最近美国国防部中国军力报告对中国造船业的估计借用几个地方。第22页,例如,显示中国将建立在2011年到2011年的3类共1元,2010年0元类。但有一个问题,它就像至少5和6元级潜艇可能在照片上的船厂为基础的水是外观。第34页显示了中国人民解放军海军的防守型054As到2012年,八个人的哈内斯图表。但有一个问题,冯强调上周,第十一届054A型即将从HP船厂发射(第六届建有单)。同样是真实的几乎每一个平台,并解释了为什么美国国防部已将40型022s去年年报告赶上022s型的实际数目已经装备部队。

什么是国会怎么办时,主席削减十月4000亿美元而美国国防部决定将额外增加一个十几中国人民解放军海军驱逐舰和护卫舰以下四月正好赶上的建设量是以前没有披露呢?透明度的事情...它很重要。

中国2010年白皮书。对于中国,2010年的白皮书是关于透明,因为它得到。它有一个很长的路要走,但美国国防部的报告中必须添加到以下(从白皮书):
有几个显着的目标和中国在新时代的国防任务的定义如下:
维护国家主权,安全和国家发展利益。中国的国防的任务是防备和抵抗侵略,保卫中国的土地,内陆水域,领海和领空安全,维护海洋权益和利益,并保持在太空,电磁空间和网络空间的安全利益。
维护社会和谐与稳定。 ...他们比战争组织,科学的方式(非战争军事行动)其他军事行动的准备工作,制定针对非传统安全威胁的预先设计的战略方案,强化专业应急队伍建设,提高反恐能力,并维护稳定,应急救援,以及安全保障。
加快国防和军队现代化建设。 ... [解放军]强化联合作战理论研究信息化条件下,推进高新技术武器装备,研制开发出新型的作战力量,努力建立信息化条件下联合作战系统,加速从军事转型根据机械化向信息化条件下军事训练条件的培训,提前与人才战略工程的实施压力机,投资建设一个现代化的物流能力更大的努力,增强在完成多样化军事任务,以赢得局部战争的能力信息化条件下,努力实现新阶段,在新世纪的历史使命。
维护世界和平与稳定。 ...中国坚持开放,务实和合作的概念,扩展其在参与国际安全合作,加强与主要大国和周边国家的战略协作和磋商,加强与发展中国家的军事交流与合作,可参与联合国维持和平作业,海上护航,国际反恐合作和灾难救援行动。
大规模海岸保安服务的扩展。中国有几种类型的海事安全机构,所有这些都扩大​​与众多船更大,更迅速。这是很难想象美国国防部可以忽略迅速扩大的中国海岸卫队和其他海上保安厅的船只,这些船只特别是一些大型或低于濒海战斗舰大。在中国目前的速度将至少建造30艘船类似美国海岸防卫队目前的5年计划巡逻刀具。具有讽刺意味的​​,考虑到美国海岸卫队是有它的预算削减,即使美国海岸警卫队快艇船队的平均年龄大概在39岁。

我不是一个中国鹰。我也不希望看到美国与中国开战,因为我相信,战争将去核。随着中说,在中国缺乏透明度,由中国军事扩张相结合,显着,速度是吓人的。

自2005年以来,美国国防部的报告一直低估了中国人民解放军海军和中国经济增长一直以两位数的百分比增加其军事预算在过去几年每年。中国国内的安全预算单是目前估计超过1150亿美元据估计,这无疑是最大的警察国家在历史上,总不包括在中国的国防预算估计 - 即使它是非常防御型的消费。

直到有更多的透明度和军事讨论中的现实主义,它只是谨慎地关注 - 因为无论是由国防部或中国愿意采取负责的立场没有任何其他信息。
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发表于 2011-5-11 12:07 | 显示全部楼层
楼主辛苦了。
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发表于 2011-5-11 12:48 | 显示全部楼层
几点说明:
1。信 是 议员的
2。图片 及 其下 是 Galrahn的
3。因有新更新,具体链接在:
4。某营 超大贵宾 ...
diver18 发表于 2011-5-11 07:49



    太激动把议员信和军事评论搞错了哈,抱歉
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 楼主| 发表于 2011-5-11 13:42 | 显示全部楼层
太激动把议员信和军事评论搞错了哈,抱歉
bigbenANTIcnn 发表于 2011-5-11 12:48

Take it easy.
我也有错。
话说 che 的翻译 是 机器的?不能太相信权威,我找的几个 关键词,他/她一个没用!
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发表于 2011-5-11 13:42 | 显示全部楼层
发一个标题党图
USA DoD.JPG
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发表于 2011-5-11 14:04 | 显示全部楼层
Take it easy.
我也有错。
话说 che 的翻译 是 机器的?不能太相信权威,我找的几个 关键词,他/她一个没 ...
diver18 发表于 2011-5-11 13:42



    是机器翻得,这件事情太搞笑了。
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发表于 2011-5-11 15:52 | 显示全部楼层
The China report has a hit and miss record.
关于中国的报告是一个胡编乱造的报告。
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