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本帖最后由 magicboy 于 2009-6-2 08:30 编辑
【中文标题】西藏应该独立吗？
【原文标题】Should Tibet Be Free
【登载媒体】SKEPTOID
【来源地址】http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4111
【译者】Sophie800214
【翻译方式】人工
【声明】本翻译供Anti-CNN使用，未经AC或译者许可，不得转载。
【原文库链接】http://bbs.m4.cn/thread-154231-1-1.html
【译文】
Perhaps an equally important question is "Should a science podcast take on a political topic?" For a long time, listeners have been sending me requests to do an episode about Tibet, and for a long time I've been putting the requests into a folder and keeping it stored away. This is Skeptoid, not Politicaloid, and my purpose is not to advocate one side or the other in political questions where you have two sides that are perfectly valid to different groups of people. But the more requests I've received, the more I've realized that there is a lot of misinformation, if not true pseudoscience, surrounding Tibet. There is, undoubtedly, a set of popular pop-culture beliefs out there, based entirely upon made-up crap that bears little resemblance to reality.
可能有一个同等重要的问题即“科学博客应该包括政治话题吗？”很长一段时间以来，听众都请求我做一期关于西藏的专题，但这么长时间以来我都把这些请求放在文件夹中封存了起来。我们是Skeptoid, 并非讨论政治的地方。有些政治问题有两面性，任何一面对不同的群体而言都是完全正确的。我的目的并非要支持其中的一面或者另外一面。但是我收到的请求越多，就越来越意识到，有许多关于西藏的错误信息，如果那不是伪科学的话。毫无疑问，关于西藏问题有一套流行的大众文化在那里，但它完全基于胡说八道地捏造，与事实相去甚远。
Mind you, I'm not saying "Hey, you've heard one side, let me give you the other side," because that's the job of a political commentator. What I'm saying today is "Here is the reality of Tibet, go forth and form whatever opinion you like," but base it on reality, not on made-up metaphysical nonsense. I'm encouraging you to apply skepticism to the reasons you may have heard for freeing Tibet.
请注意，我并非说：“嘿，你已经听了某一面的观点，让我讲讲给你另一面的观点。”因为那是政治评论家的事。今天我所说的是：“这是关于西藏的事实，你会形成何种观点任你自己喜欢好了，”但是请基于事实而不是形而上学、胡说八道的捏造。我鼓励你对你可能听到的西藏独立的原因带点怀疑的态度。
Like most Americans, I grew up watching video of the Chinese army taking howitzers and destroying the massive centuries-old Tibetan monasteries in 1959, and that's an indisputable crime against history, religious freedom, and the dignity of Tibetans. And then I watched video of the Dalai Lama, the exiled spiritual and political leader of the Tibetan people, in his red and yellow robes, speaking words of wisdom and brotherhood and freedom and peace. And I'll freely admit: For nearly all of my life, this was the extent of my knowledge of the Tibet situation: Violence and cruelty from the Chinese; innocence and beauty from the Tibetans. I believe that many Westerners, including many who fervently wave Free Tibet placards, have little knowledge of the situation any deeper than that. But isn't it likely that there's more to it than that? Isn't it equally disrespectful of the Tibetans as it is of the Chinese to attempt to encompass who and what they are with those tiny little pictures?
像大部分美国人一样，我是看着这样的录像长大的：中国军队在1959年拿着榴弹炮炸毁大批有几百年历史的西藏寺院。毫无争议，那是有损历史、宗教自由以及西藏人民尊严的罪行。那时候我在录像上看到，被流放的藏族精神政治领袖达赖喇嘛身穿红黄两色僧袍，口谈智慧、兄弟情谊、自由和和平言论。我坦白承认：这是几乎我一生以来所知道的西藏形势：中国人强暴残忍，藏族人无辜美丽。我相信许多西方人，包括许多狂热高举西藏独立招牌的人在内，对西藏形式的了解不会比那更深了。但是否有可能有比那更多的事实呢？藏族人是否就像中国人力图包围他们的行为一样，一样不值得尊敬？他们是否对那些小照片做了手脚？
A complete history lesson is impossible, but here's a quick overview of the points relevant to today's discussion. China and Tibet have a long and complicated history. In 1950, China invaded to assert its claim, and ruled by trying to win hearts and minds, building roads and public utilities, and allowing the Tibetan system of feudal serfdoms to remain largely intact. In 1959 the Tibetan ruling class revolted, prompting a Chinese crackdown that sent the Dalai Lama and most other Tibetan aristocrats into exile in India, where they remain to this day. The former serfs became ordinary Chinese citizens, and Tibet is now an "autonomous region" in China, a status that many describe as actually less autonomous than an ordinary Chinese province. From his palace in India, the Dalai Lama now travels the world in a private jet, hobnobbing with the wealthy and powerful, fundraising, and writing highly successful books on metaphysics.
这里并不可能给大家上一堂完整的历史课，如下只是今天所讨论内容的要点概览：中国与西藏有漫长复杂的历史渊源。在1950年，中国入侵西藏宣布对其的主权，通过赢得民心来统治西藏，修建公路和公共设施，允许西藏维持封建农奴制度不变。1959年，西藏统治阶层叛变，很快被中国镇压，达赖喇嘛和其他大部分西藏贵族被流放到印度，一直呆到现在。昔日的农奴变成了普通中国公民，西藏变成了中国的“自治区”，这一地位很多人认为与中国普通的省没什么区别。达赖喇嘛住在印度自己的宫殿里，架私人飞机去世界各地，与有钱优势的人开怀对饮，筹集资金，著玄学书赢取了极度成功。
Recently there were some anti-China, pro-Tibet protests in Nepal, a neighboring independent nation. This is illegal in Nepal, and the authorities have been cracking down on it. Why does Nepal side with China on this issue? Because they depend heavily on Chinese aid to survive, and this is a requirement that China imposes, though they call it a "request". At first glance you might be shocked that an independent nation would give up its freedom of speech to make a deal with the devil, but that's an easy opinion to form when you're not hungry. It makes sense for Nepal to agree to these terms, because their back is against the wall: They need China's aid. As for China imposing this condition? Well, that's one for you to chalk up in your column of "Things China Needs to Reconsider".
最近在尼泊尔（一个与中国毗邻的独立国家）有些反对中国、支持西藏的论调。这在尼泊尔是违法的，政府当局已经镇压了该行为。为什么尼泊尔在这个问题上支持中国？因为他们严重地依赖中国的援助生存，这是中国强加给他们的要求，虽然他们称之为“请求”。最初你可能感到震惊：一个独立国家会放弃言论自由,而和魔鬼去做交易。当你没有求知欲望的时候，你很容易形成那样的观点。尼泊尔同意这些条件是有道理的，因为他们现在岌岌可危，需要中国的援助。至于中国强迫尼泊尔接受这些条件之事，那应该放在“中国需要反思的一些事情”专栏里去讨论。
So, why doesn't China simply give Tibet the same treatment they give Nepal — let them be an independent nation, give them aid, and just require them to say only nice things about them? Well, Nepal has long been an independent nation; Tibet hasn't. The history of China's rule over Tibet is exceptionally complicated and goes back many centuries. Anyone who tells you that either Tibet is historically part of China, or that Tibet is historically free, is making a disingenuous oversimplification. Personally, I choose to discount this subject completely, and not because it's too intricate to make a clear decision. I discount it because practically every square inch of land on the planet has been taken over militarily or annexed or stolen in one way or another from one people by another people. We don't give California back to the Spanish, and we don't give Italy back to Norway. Ancient history is not the way to settle current border disputes. To find a meaningful settlement that makes sense for people today, you have to consider Tibet to be a current border dispute. So while we're chalking up China's claim of ancient possession in the column of "Things China Needs to Reconsider", let's also chalk up Tibet's claim of ancient autonomy in the column of "Things Tibet Needs to Shut Up About".
那么，为什么中国不是简单地给西藏和尼泊尔一样的待遇——让西藏称为独立国家，予以援助，仅要求他们说中国的好话？其实尼泊尔很久以来就是一个独立国家，但是西藏不是。中国统治西藏的历史尤其复杂，可以追溯好几百年。任何人，不管他告诉你西藏历史上是中国的一部分还是西藏历史上是独立的，都犯了一个不真诚的过度简单的错误。我个人选择不全信，并不是因为这个问题太复杂，很难下一个清晰的结论，而是因为事实上地球上每一寸土地，都是一个名族从另一个名族那里通过武力占领，或是吞并，或是用这种或那种方式窃取的。我们没有把加利福利亚还给西班牙，也没有将意大利还给罗威。当然古代历史并非解决现代边界问题的方法，要寻找对现代人而言有道理有意义的解决办法。你必须考虑西藏问题是一个现代的边界争端，因此，当被我们把中国声称西藏在古代为中国所有这一论断放在“中国人需要反思的一些事情”专栏时，让我们也应该将西藏声称其在古代是主权国家这一论断放入“西藏需要闭嘴的一些事情”专栏中。
And once we open up that column, we find it's a Pandora's Box. Advocates of a free Tibet make a long list of charges against Chinese oppression, largely centered upon a loss of rights and freedom. This claim makes anyone familiar with Tibetan history cough up their coffee. The only people who lost any rights under Chinese rule are Tibet's former ruling class, themselves guilty of cruelty and oppression of a magnitude that not even China can conceive. The vast majority of Tibetans, some 90% of whom were serfs, have enjoyed a relative level of freedom unheard of in their culture. Until 1950 when the Chinese put a stop to it, 90% of Tibetans had no rights at all. They were freely traded and sold. They were subject to the worst type of punishments from their lords, including gouging out of eyes; cutting off hands, feet, tongues, noses, or lips; and a dozen horrible forms of execution. There was no such concept as legal recourse; the landowning monk class was the law. There was no such thing as education, medical care, sanitation, or public utilities. Young boys were frequently and freely taken from families to endure lifelong servitude, including rape, in the monasteries. Amid all the pop-culture cries about Chinese oppression, why is there never any mention of the institutionalized daily oppression levied by the Dalai Lama's class prior to 1959?
一旦我们打开那一专栏，我们会发现它是个潘多拉魔盒。西藏独立的支持者对中国人的压迫作了一长串的控诉，大部分围绕着失去权利和自由之事。这一指责会让熟悉西藏历史的人喷出嘴里的咖啡。在中国人统治下唯一失去权利的人是西藏过去的统治阶级，他们自己残酷压迫人民的罪行数不胜数，到了连中国人都难以想象的程度。绝大多数西藏人，即90%过去是农奴，享受相对的自由，其自由程度之低在中国文化中未有所闻。直到1950年中国人终止了这种现象之前，90%的西藏人完全没有权利：他们被任意地买卖，会受到主任最残酷的惩罚，包括挖眼睛、砍手脚、割舌头或者鼻子和嘴唇，有十几种恐怖的处决方式；没有诉诸法律这样的概念，拥有土地的僧人阶层就是法律；没有教育、医疗卫生和公共设施这些事物；年轻的男孩被随意频繁地从家庭里带到寺院中，经受终身劳役，包括被强暴。在所有高呼中国压迫的大众文化中，为什么没有提到任何1959年前达赖喇嘛阶层制度化的日常压迫行为？7
Free Tibet advocates also point to the destruction of Tibetan culture. This charge is particularly bizarre. The only art produced in Tibet prior to 1950 was limited to the output of a few monks in each monastery, principally drawings of monasteries. New literature had not been produced in Tibet for centuries. Since the 1959 uprising, art and literature in Tibet have both flourished, now that the entire population is at liberty to produce. Tibet even has its share of well known poets, authors, and internationally known artists now.
西藏独立的支持者还指责中国破坏西藏文化。这一指责尤为奇怪。西藏1950年唯一创造的艺术仅限于各寺院一些僧人的作品，尤其是寺院绘画。西藏几个世纪以来都没有产生新文学。自从1959年起义，文学和艺术都繁荣起来，因为所有人都可以自由创作。西藏现在甚至有了自己的知名诗人、作家和国际著名艺术家。
Make no mistake about China's history of human rights failings: China's "Great Leap Forward" and "Cultural Revolution" programs from 1958 through 1976 were as disastrous for Tibet as they were for the rest of China. There can never be any excuse for the deliberate widescale destruction of life, liberty, and property during those years. Hundreds of thousands of Tibetans, and tens of millions of Chinese, lost their lives during this misguided pretense at "reform". This was a phase that China went through, and it's arguable that Tibet would have been spared this torment if they had been independent at the time. But for your average Tibetan in the field, a serf with no rights, living and working and dying at the whim of his lord, were those decades really worse than they would have been without China? There's no way to know, but to a skeptical mind, it's not a slam-dunk that China's Cultural Revolution was harder on Tibet than Tibet's ruling class had always been in the past.
不要弄错中国人权失败的历史：中国1958年到1976年期间的“大跃进”和“文化大革命”对中国人与对西藏人一样都是一场灾难。在那个年代，没有任何理由就可以故意大规模地摧毁生命、剥夺自由、破坏财产。十几万西藏人和上千万中国人在这场以“革命”为借口误入歧途的活动中失去了生命。这是一个中国经历的阶段，在这段时间如果西藏独立的话是否也经历这些折磨？这很有争议。但是对于一般的西藏人，一个没有权利的农奴来说，比起在主人皮鞭下生活、工作和死亡，文革的那些年真的比他们没有被中国统治时更糟糕吗？我们无法得知。但是对于一个善于怀疑的头脑来说，并不会有这样的定论：中国文革对西藏人来说要比西藏统治阶级过去所做所为更残酷。
If we think back to our list of red flags to identify misinformation, cultural campaigns and celebrity endorsements should always trigger your skeptical radar. Few campaigns are as near and dear to the hearts of Hollywood activists as "Freeing Tibet". Notable Tibet advocates include Sharon Stone, Richard Gere, Paris Hilton, and the great political science scholar Lindsay Lohan. Jounalist Christopher Hitchens notes that "when on his trips to Hollywood fundraisers, [the Dalai Lama] anoints major donors like Steven Segal and Richard Gere as holy." Being anointed as holy probably does great things for your social standing within Hollywood, but it should not be considered evidence of expertise. I'll bet that if you asked either Steven Segal or Paris Hilton to lecture on the events of the Lhasa Uprising of 1959, you'd find that neither knows even the most basic information about the cause they so passionately advocate. Just because Hollywood celebrities promote a viewpoint doesn't mean they're qualified to do so, something that (unbelieveably) still seems to escape most people.
如果我们回头想想我们识别错误信息的红色警旗，文化运动和名人支持总会成为你怀疑的雷达。很少活动会像“西藏独立”这样被好莱坞活动家钟爱。著名西藏支持者包括莎朗.斯通、理查德.吉尔、巴里斯.希尔顿和政治学大学者林赛.罗韩。记者克里斯多弗·息金斯说：“在达赖喇嘛去见好莱坞募捐者的旅途中，给主要募捐者如斯蒂文.席格或者巴里斯就1959年的拉萨起义作讲座的话，你会发现他们连自己如此热诚支持的事业的最基本情况都不知道。不能仅仅因为好莱坞名人支持某一观点就认为他们有资格这么做，有些事情看起来仍然（难以置信地）没有被大部分人注意到。
Furthermore, the people shouting loudest about freeing Tibet don't seem to be aware that that's not even what the Dalai Lama wants from China. He's not seeking full independence, Nepal style; rather he would like to achieve the same status as Hong Kong, which is a "special administrative region". This would give them full economic benefits without having to become a regular province, something along the lines of a US territory. So here's a note to all the Hollywood celebrities: If you really want to support the Dalai Lama, ditch your "Free Tibet" signs and paint some up that say "Change Tibet from an Autonomous Region to a Special Administrative Region". It's not as good of a sound bite, and it's a change that would have little practical impact on Tibetans; but it would allow the Dalai Lama to return to his aristrocratic lifestyle and his 1000 room palace at Potala.
而且，对西藏独立呼声最高的人们不见得意识到：西藏独立甚至都不是达赖喇嘛想从中国那里得到的结果。他并不是寻求尼泊尔式的完全独立，而是想成为和香港相同的地位特别行政区。这样他们可以取得全部的经济优惠，而不用成为一个围绕美国国界转的普通一省。所以这里有个给好莱坞名人的提醒：如果您真的想支持达赖喇嘛，放弃“西藏独立”的标记，涂上“将西藏从自治区变为特别行政区”的口号。它并不是简短精悍的优秀言论，而是对西藏人有很少实际影响的改变，但是它却能让达赖喇嘛返回他的贵族生活，回到有1000多间房间的布达拉宫。
So to all those who so heatedly call for the freeing of Tibet, first consider whether you have the expertise to know whether Tibet is best served as an autonomous region or as a special administrative region. Understand exactly what implications such a change may have upon the economics and the daily lives of its citizens, or maybe even entertain the possibility that it's a decision best left to Tibetans.
因此对于所有那些热心号召西藏独立的人来说，最先要考虑的是您是否有这样的专业水平，知道西藏最适合做自治区还是特别行政区。要准确的了解这一变化对西藏经济和公民的日常生活有什么蕴义，更有甚者，接受这样的可能性：最好将这一决定留给西藏人。
翻译交流见#17
个别地方翻译得不太准确，甚至有误。
》Isn't it equally disrespectful of the Tibetans as it is of the Chinese to attempt to encompass who and what they are with those tiny little pictures?
－藏族人是否就像中国人力图包围他们的行为一样，一样不值得尊敬？他们是否对那些小照片做了手脚？$ T, y% B! R, T' [, X! T1 F# N1 \
应该为：如果仅在如此之狭隘的知识范围去试图理解藏人和中国人到底是什么样的人是不是不仅是对中国人也对藏人的不尊重？
－被流放到印度
改为：流亡到印度
》a status that many describe as actually less autonomous than an ordinary Chinese province.
－这一地位很多人认为与中国普通的省没什么区别
改为：这一地位很多人认为比中国普通的省更缺少自主性。
》最近在尼泊尔（一个与中国毗邻的独立国家）有些反对中国、支持西藏的论调。
demontration是示威游行的意思。
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狗仔卡
发表于 2009-5-31 23:51
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发表于 2009-6-1 00:48
