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50-59的回复
50 By Baobbs.m4.cn9 P1 _9 @7 S2 A+ [: ~1 p i! f6 \* X
And how about the genocide of the Neanderthals by the homo sapiens, 30000 years ago?
那么，30000年前智人对穴居人的种族灭绝又如何呢？
I hope you keep in mind this important event as well, and from now on I suggest that you include it in your ad nauseam rhetoric.
我希望你也考虑到这件重要的事，并且从今之后，我建议你把这个例子加入到你那些令人作呕的花言巧语中去。
Would be a shame to forget this one because it makes guilty every single human on earth.
忘记这个是很令人羞愧的，因为地球上的每个人都有罪。
January 13, 2009 @ 3:56 pm | Comment
51 By Richard
Ferin, I don’t put Nazi Germany in the same category as Russia orChina. NG is higher on the evil scale, but most of that 11 percent were German soldiers killed in wars outside of Germany’s borders, or Jews and gypsies Hitler considered non-German. No one’s saying Europe is so fine and perfect; I included Russia in my short list, and will include any other country in Europe that executed, starved or terrorized millions of its own. And this blog never, ever lets Nazi barbarity “off the hook,” so please think before you type
Ferin，我并不把纳粹德国与俄罗斯或者中国看成一类。NG更加罪恶，但是更重要的是死在了德国境外的人中有11%是德国士兵，或者也有犹太人和吉普赛人，希特勒把他们当作非德国人。没人说欧洲很完美，我的名单中包括俄罗斯，并且将包括欧洲的任何国家，只要（这个国家？）有上百万人在被处死，受饿或者生活与恐怖统治下。这个博客从未也决不替纳粹的残忍开脱，因此在你打出这些字前请三思。
But why do we keep having the same discussion with you? This has been rehashed too many times. All nations have blood on their hands. If you know this blog you know I constantly call out the crimes of the Bush administration. No favorites here, murder is murder.AC四月青年社区. ?6 G6 D0 e' q2 |. x) G; v( t
但是为什么我们仍然保持和你讨论这件事？虽然它已经被老调重弹很多次了。每个民族手上都沾满了鲜血。如果你知道这个博客，你就会知道我一直在说布什政府的犯罪行为。我没任何偏向，谋杀者就是谋杀者。
Look at how you’ve highjacked and mangled the thread. The only reason Mao came up was because you made the statement that all countries are bad to its own citizens, that China is like the rest. This begged thereference to Mao - of course China under Mao is in a league by itself, with runners-up like Hitler, Pol Pot and Stalin close behind. And now you throw it back and ask why I’m bringing up Mao and putting words in your mouth. No one made any assumptions that you supported Mao, and your saying that someone did so is simply false. What I’m saying is that the example of Mao’s holocaust belies your argument of equal guilt among all nations in how they treat their citizens. Sadly, China still has a lot further to go than many other nations in this area. I can supply lots of links if you need examples
看看你是怎么强奸民意并破坏了这些帖子。毛之所以出现在话题中，只是因为你声称所有国家对自己的国民都很坏，中国和其它地方也一样。这就引出了毛，当然毛统治下的中国本身在一个联盟中，其领导者像是希特勒之类的，紧接其后的就是Pol Pot和斯大林。现在你又把这些扔回来，还问我为什么把毛也牵扯进来了，并且你没说过这些而是我强加给你的。没有任何人假设你支持毛，你说过这么做的人都是虚伪的。我所说的是，毛的大屠杀的例子把你的所有民族的罪孽是相同的观点掩饰在他们怎么对待自己的国民里了。可悲的是，比起这个地区的大多数其它民族，中国仍然更有未来。如果你要例子，我可以给你很多链接。
The US carries a large share of guilt for exporting war and destabilizing other governments and more recently for licensing torture; Germany carries the lion’s share of guilt for race-based extermination; Pol Pot for ideological extermination; and China wins a gold medal in the category of inflicting a quarter-century of non-stop misery and death on its own citizens
美国背负者很多罪恶，比如发动战争，动摇其它国家的政府，最近如合法的折磨等；德国的罪恶在种族灭绝；Pol Pot的罪恶消灭意识形态；中国则在另一方面赢得了金牌，即让自己的国民1/4个世纪中不停的遭受痛苦和死亡。
Read carefully. No one is saying you support Mao - only that your are also ppy historian and generalizer, and that every argument you make goesback to a single proposition: America is the bad one, and China is okay even if “mistakes were made,” and that if it did do something horrific,well, America did even worse. I don’t deny America’s done a lot of bad. But you constantly and reflexively react to every comment on China with the predictable, “But in America….” You are a broken record and, at least at the moment, you’re being a troll.
看仔细点，没人说你支持毛，只有你在ppy？历史并且一概而论。你所有的观点都回到同一主张：美国是坏的，中国是好的，即使犯了错误，或者是啥令人毛骨悚然的事，但总之美国更坏。我并不否认美国干了许多坏事，但是你一直本能的反对对中国的每一个评论，说“但是在美国…”你就像一个坏了的录音机，至少这会你一直在不停转圈。
`January 13, 2009 @ 4:09 pm | Commentbbs.m4.cn7 ?; [: e; c! ?4 H3 q, D9 T
52 By yourfriend
And how about the genocide of the Neanderthals by the homo sapiens, 30000 years ago?+ e5 f# c" B/ c
引用50 By Baobbs.m4.cn9 P
Actually, I have brought this up when facing obnoxious, Euro-apologists. However, the Neanderthals were wiped out by European homo sapiens, not all h. sapiens. Then again, back then they weren’t really genetically European
实际上面对不愉快时，我带来了这些欧洲辩护者（？）。但是，穴居人是被欧洲智人扫地出门的不是所有智人。另外，回过头来实际上他们也不是真正起源自欧洲。
Amusing, but silly.- m' K P% g2 d& k- G- a' B
很有趣吧，但是很愚蠢。
All nations have blood on their hands
引用51 By Richardbbs.m4.cn9 P
Exactly. This is the point I keep trying to get across. But why is it that posters here try to make it seem as if the PRC is the only nation that does it? If you’re going to use 30-50 year old CCP atrocities as justification for modern arguments you’re really just begging to have someone come in and bring up European crimes against humanity. Of course it’s not conducive to discussion- you preclude that by constantly digging up Mao’s corpse as an indictment of modern China. He’s dead and done- this is something every Chinese person hears when some foreigner apologist gives his typical litany on how the developed nations have no responsibility to the rest of the world.求真务实 理性交流! y. S2 X+ u# E/ P$ Y
准确的说，我试图跨过这个观点。但是为什么这的回帖者都试图使人看起来像是只有PRC这个民族干了那些事？如果你打算用30-50年前的中国共产党干的那些残暴行为来作为你现代观点的论据，那么你就实际上牵扯了某些人进来并且也得把欧洲那些反人权的罪行暴露出来。当然，这无益于讨论，你却通过不停的挖掘毛的尸体来作为对现代中国的控告。他已经死了并且过去了。这些每个中国人都听说了，尤其是当一些外国辩护者念叨他那么典型的、冗长的关于为何发达国家对世界上其它地方没任何责任的时候。- o1 J% Z, q4 e9 H+ v5 q' \. r
you made the statement that all countries are bad to its own citizens,that China is like the rest. This begged the reference to Mao
引用51 By Richardbbs.m4.cn9 P
Jesus Mother**ing Christ, the Mao era is over. Another thing I will never fathom is how the posters here constantly tell Chinese people to “get over” the Nanjing Massacre, Bombing of Shanghai, Unit 731.. etc, but they themselves (that is, the whiny foreigners) will not “get over” Mao when trying hard to make China look bad (at the expense of the people).
基督的母亲生下了（？）救世主，毛时代结束了。另一件我将永远不想知道的是，这儿的人会怎么告诉中国人去忘了南京大屠杀、上海大轰炸、731部队等等，但他们自己（这里指那些好发牢骚的外国人）决不会忘了毛，尤其是要抹黑中国的时候
What I’m saying is that the example of Mao’s holocaust belies yourargument of equal guilt among all nations in how they treat theircitizens+ K" n l. f5 n6 H! j# P1 W5 r
引用51 By Richard
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And once again I have mentioned that many nations, including almost all European ones, are guilty of unimaginable atrocities against their own people and/or others. This discussion is so ridiculous that I have to take death tolls as a percentage of the population and then divide it by the years to calculate the ruthless efficiency of genocide by nation.
再一次我提到了包括欧洲所有国家的许多国家都对自己的人民或者其他人有着无法想象的残暴行为。这个讨论是如此可笑以至于我不得不把死亡人数当作人口的百分比，然后按年划分，去计算国家种族灭绝的残忍效率。
Remember, it’s another poster who first made the claim that China’s governments were extraordinarily cruel and that this is quantifiable. The reason why I strongly oppose this view is because it is a consistent and erroneous bias that “Western” historians have of Chinese history. The other thing is that the way you blog on China creates a sense of hopelessness that is not conducive to real progress
记住，是另一个人挑起了这个争论，即中国政府是极其残忍的并且是可以计算的。我强烈反对这一关点的理由是，因为这是一个长久以来的错误的偏见，西方历史学家是中国历史的行家（大意）。另一方面你博客上有关中国的事创造了一副毫无希望的景象，而这对真实的过程无任何益处。
You are a broken record and, at least at the moment, you’re being a troll.
引用51 By Richardbbs.m4.cn9 P
My message is exceedingly clear. When you write you must be careful about how you say things. That is not counting some occasional mistakes(gini coefficients, death tolls). The reason why I bring up America is because the way some posters here carry on, you’d think that they believe America is a good example for China to look to and that all of China’s problems can be fixed by taking a Euro-American path towards industrialization and modernization; which is clearly not the case. In fact, China must be very different from America or they’ll consume the world into a wasteland
我讲的很清楚，当你回复的时候你必须对你说的十分小心。这不是计算一些偶然的错误（基尼系数、死亡人数）。我说到美国只是因为一些人说到了它，他们认为美国是中国最好的样例，所有中国的问题都可以通过欧美化的道路得到修正，并走向工业化和现代化，尽管这不是事实。实际上，中美有很大不同，他们也不会把整个世界消费成废墟。
8I’m actually saving you headaches by arguing against deeply ingrained ethnocentrism so you don’t have to hear it from the likes of HX or Math, who are a joke.AC四月青年社区+ N0 X4 q9 c. ~7 S5 ]$ e# E
我实际上通过对根深蒂固的民族优越的的深入争论，在为你治疗头疼（比喻…），因此你不必再从HX或者Math这种好笑的人那打听这些。
January 13, 2009 @ 4:53 pm | Comment
53 By RichardAC四月青年社区( }6 C2 J% Y' J! E$ [/ A
Thanks Ferin, I’m eternally grateful. Now, about what MacKinnon says about CNN and other media….AC四月青年社区3 k" q9 g$ \; x8 T
谢谢Ferin，感激不尽。现在，看看MacKinnon所说的有关CNN的事以及其它媒体…
January 13, 2009 @ 6:28 pm | Comment
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54 By Paultard
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Mao was probably most evil emperor in Chinese history and he did manyterrible things in culture rev. But do you think its fair to say he murdered 25-35mils of Chinese during the three-years-famine?
毛可能是中国历史上最邪恶的君主，他在文化大革命中干了许多可怕的事。但是你认为说他在3年饥荒中谋杀了2.5-3.5千万中国人公平么？' `*
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8 ?* w1 p* Q5 u, r9 aQUESTION: Mr L, you talked about how the Communists did a better jobthan anyone else could have in ruling China after they came to power,but they also killed enormous numbers of their own people. Do you haveany sense of how many people the Chinese government killed under Mao’srule and, if you do not have a sense for the number, do you think itwas more or less, say, than Hitler?
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Mr L:1 J# z; `4 @4 h7 X7 u5 a
Well, we are talking about two countries with a great difference inpopulation, you know, so you would have to say, like, you would have topro-rate it, but to me that is not the only significant thing; there isa qualitative difference." A/ l! `4 ?( o- P4 `0 H
8 q' W: R, |' R& YHitler believed in the rule — world domination by a master race. Maodid not believe in any sort of master race or master country. Once, in1964, when he received delegations from 16 African countries who werestill fighting for independence — so most of them were from guerrillagroups — he had me come to this meeting and I had no idea why, since ithad to do with Africa, and I found out after I got there the reason hewanted me there was, he wanted to make the point to them that a racistapproach was wrong.
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How many people died? Well, the most striking figure I know of is that,in the famine that followed the Great Leap Forward in 1958/59, anestimated between 25 and 35 million people in the countryside starved,partly because of natural disasters, mostly man-made, because of wrongpolicy. And I think the real crime in Mao’s behavior was, not that hewanted people to die, not at all, but the fact that he thought that hehad the right to perform these huge social experiments involvinghundreds of millions of people when he, himself, did not know what theresult was going to be, but he was trying to find a way for China todevelop and to grow prosperous faster. He wanted to do that; he wantedto show the world; so a different kind of thing., g! G: v- Z4 z# h
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I remember a friend of mine who was an American writer, in 1958 arrivedin Beijing, saw the Great Leap Forward, all the false reports onphenomenal increases in production and so on and immediately wanted towrite a book about it. And Mao told her, “Don’t do it. Wait five years,because we still don’t know what the outcome of this Great Leapbusiness is going to be”. So he knew that he did not know and still hethought that he had the right to go ahead and do it; socialexperimentation. Very different sort of mentality from Hitler orGoebbels.8 I! ~/ a6 N( v; _* {( I
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January 13, 2009 @ 8:25 pm | Comment
55 By cinabbs.m4.cn3 \ @! u$ {; S
@HongXingAC四月青年社区7 M* d5 C# Z j5 `, t7 Q( y! v }
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I am sure you are from mainland China because I am.
我很肯定你来自大陆，因为我也是。
Your mind still stays in the period of WWII in which power can rule theworld. I don’t think China has any chance to develop the same power as Soviet Union did. But the democratic countries had never surrendered to that autocracy like Chinese succumb to their own dictator.6 x( u2 P. G8 b! j# k
你的思想仍然停留在二战，认为凭力量就能统治整个世界。我不认为中国有任何机会能发展成前苏联那样的实力，但是民主国家绝不会向独裁政府屈服，决不会像中国人自己向他们的独裁者屈服那样。
Don’t have those stupid dreams, hehe
别再做那些愚蠢的梦了，呵呵
January 13, 2009 @ 8:37 pm | Comment* r! k0 i5 s, X
56 By cina
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@Imitation Crabmeat( O0 Y( E( H3 R5 h# C/ ?" L
求真务实 理性交流- E. H6 N7 H, X y) k! ^
Yu’s article is crap. President Hu uses it for his power struggle. Actually, Hu did the exact opposite to what the article said.
Yu的文章是废话。胡主席用他来服务于他得权力，实际上胡做的和文章说的完全相反。January 13, 2009 @ 8:42 pm | Comment
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57 By HongXing
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Why this anchor called Lou Dobbs of CNN, when mentioning China on hisnews program, he adds the word “Red” in front? Every single instance.Any reason?bbs.m4.cn2 W+ ^ ^/ [( Z, \2 k
为什么这个主持人叫Lou Dobbs of CNN？（没明白…）当他在新闻中提及中国的时候，他在前面加“红色“这个词了么？举个例子如何。还有其它疑问么？
Name me any anchor in CCTV that adds “imperialist” or any similar descriptors when mentioning the US?3 ~, `4 ~$ I4 c
能给我个CCTV主持人的名字，在他提到美国的时候加了帝国主义或者相似的词么？; x) l' g0 {* r: U. N7 f
January 14, 2009 @ 3:01 am | Comment求真务实 理性交流" j t6 S: E5 `$ x; }* i) P
AC四月青年社区1 R0 Q7 N6 I" a( \5 m4 |9 T/ @
58 By Bao
Why this anchor called Lou Dobbs of CNN, when mentioning China on his news program, he adds the word “Red” in front? Every single instance. Any reason?”
引用 57 By HongXing
Because we all hate China HX, especially the people like me, part of the Agency (CIA), I hope you will excuse us, we were brainwashed when we were young…AC四月青年社区- ^5 @3 }8 d2 H ?% u
因为我们**HX，尤其是像我这种属于CIA的人，我希望你能原谅我们，我们很小时就被洗脑了…
We are working very hard everyday to destroy China, I hope you understand at least our goal.
我们每天很努力地去破坏中国，我希望你至少明白我们的目标。
China should die!
中国应该去死！% S: E# m, Z" @3 B1 Z
crumble upon a ton of printed papers, printed by CNN of course.
一吨已印好的、碎了的纸上，当然印着CNN的字样（没明白….）
Mouhahahahahahaha! (evil laugh)…
Mouhahahahahahaha!（邪恶的笑声）。。。。
January 14, 2009 @ 3:08 am | Comment
59 By cina1 M( l# k# z& y& d3 j6 J% ]
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Chinese is wired. They are ashamed of being called Red even thought heir own flag is made of red and their rulers claim that they are communist party and struggle to realize communism.
中国人都生活在围墙中，他们对被叫做红色国度感到羞愧，尽管他们自己的国旗是红色的，并且他们的规则要求他们加入共产党并为实现共产主义而奋斗。
Actually, in their mind, they already admit that communist is evil. But they want to cooperate with dictators to fool themselves.
实际上，在他们的思想里，他们实际上已经承认共产主义是魔鬼。但是他们要与独裁者合作好愚弄自己。
January 14, 2009 @ 9:58 am | Comment
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楼主: 空气稀薄
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