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本帖最后由 酸枣树310 于 2009-2-22 21:11 编辑
多谢redflag，我已在文本中修改过来了，不过已发的帖子由于超时无法编辑了。
这是综合其它人修改之后结果的40-最后的翻译
40 By HongXing
Imitation Crab Meat. You are being too nice and gentlemanly with these American dullards, these democracy-worshippers.
Imitation Crab Meat，你这人对这些只会崇拜民主的白痴美国人太好了、太有绅士风度了。
The only way they’ll sit down and talk to you nicely, the only day when the Tibet issue is no longer an issue, when the Taiwan issue is no longer an issue, is when China has enough intercontinental missiles to cover most population centers the entire Europe and US, when China has enough spy satellites to see every car plates in the entire US East Coast, when China’s navy can go head to head with any US carrier fleet whether in the Pacific or the Atlantic, when China’s military bases areas numerous as America’s
只有当中国有足够多的洲际导弹覆盖欧美的所有大城市，当中国有足够多的间谍卫星看清美国东部海岸每辆车的车牌，当中国海军无论在太平洋还是大西洋都能与美国舰队并驾齐驱，当中国的军事基地数量与美国一样多的时候，西藏问题才不在是问题，台湾问题也不在是问题，这是唯一让他们坐下来和你友好讨论的方法。
That is the day, when we can sit down and talk such gentlmanly issues as human rights, freedom, etc.
那一天才是我们坐下来和他们友好地、绅士地讨论诸如人权、自由之类的东西的时候。
Until then, just keep your head down and work hard.
在那之前，埋下头、努力工作。
41 By Richard
HX, evil and stupid as usual.
HX，你一如既往的邪恶和愚蠢。
42 By el chino
Democracy has been adopted as the political system by most of the countries in the world today, including the African and the Latin American countries. But when it comes to China, democracy seems to bean impossibly complicated and difficult thing for the Chinese and their ruler to accomplish (but they would still tell you it is not that they don’t want it). Just look at Crab meat’s excuses: “an ideal democratic system must not only be related to the economic state and level of development of society, the regional politics and international environment, it must also be intimately related to the national tradition of political culture, the quality of the politicians and the people, and the daily customs of the people. It requires the wisdom of the politicians and the people, …etc”.ww
如今，世界上多数国家都信奉民主的政治制度，包括非洲和拉丁美洲的国家。但是对中国，民主看起来是无解的，很难被中国人和他们的统治者实现（但是他们任然会告诉你这并不是他们不想要民主）。看看Crab meat的借口：“一个理想的民主系统不仅仅与一个社会的经济、发展水平、地方政治和国际环境有关，它也与一个民族的政治文化传统、与政治家和人民的性格、与当日人们的日常习惯密切相关。它需要政治家和人民的共同智慧。”
Complicated and difficult or not, the Africans and Latinos have successfully built their own democracy and Chinese still just can’t. In the meantime, they try to prove themselves and impress the others with how many Olympic gold medals they have won and their space project. The Chinese people did well in these fields, but when compared to other people, they seem to be politically retarded and can only hang on to their traditional 5000-year old totalitarianism.
有那么复杂和困难么，非洲和拉丁美洲已经成功的建立了自己的民主制度，但是中国却不能。与此同时，他们想用所获得的奥运会金牌数以及太空计划来证明自己，并影响其他人（对中国的看法）。在这些领域，中国人干的不错，但是与其他人相比，他们在政治上是发展迟缓的，仅仅只能炫耀下他们那古老的的5000年极权统治而已。
43 By yourfriend
“Not nearly as much” Do you have evidence of this？
“不像多数那样” 你有关于这个的证据么？
Yes. Anyone with a brain knows this. Have you been lynched yet? Case closed
是的，任何一个有头脑的人都知道这个。你被处以私刑（诽谤？）了么？相关的案例？
How would we feel, Western people, trapped in our warrior
（不明白 暂不翻译）
Warriors have honor.
勇士是荣耀的。
44 By Richard
Looks like we’ve strayed off-topic a bit. Chino, democracy is imperfect and I’m not sure China is ready for a complete makeover. But it is ready for serious reform leading in the path toward democracy .Unfortunately those reforms are coming mighty slowly, and sometimes the government seems to be going in the wrong direction altogether (witness the recent spike in web censorship). An important step in the right direction will be ending the victim mentality and focusing on what really matters instead of poorly cropped photos and the like.
好像我们有点跑题了。Chino，民主并不完美，我也不肯定中国会使其完善。但是该是认真进行改革的时候了。不幸的是，这些改革来的慢了点，而且有些政府看上去已经走错了方向（比如最近的网络检查）。要回到正确的方向，重要的是排除受害者情绪，把目光集中在真正的问题上，而不是裁剪的很差的照片之类的事（可能指代CNN有意剪切照片的事）。
45 By el chino
Alright, let’s come back to the victimhood. Who victimized the Chinese people most and decimated them once in a while? Of course their own government and their own rulers in the successive dynasties. But the Chinese people are misled by their government to focus on the European exploitation and mistreatment of Chinese in the recent 100 years and made oblivious of the crimes against humanities committed by each of their own rulers against Chinese in their history, including the current govt.1 e4 |2 y6 m; T8 i* |, D
好吧，让我们回到受害者情绪。谁曾经伤害且杀害最多的中国人？当然是他们自己各个朝代的政府和统治者。但是中国人被自己的政府误导了，让他们的目光集中在最近100年欧洲的侵略上，却遗忘了他们历史上每个统治者对中国人所作的那些反人权的罪行，包括现在的政府。
46 By yourfriend
An important step in the right direction will be ending the victim mentality!
44 By Richard
You mean among foreign whiners in China? I agree. However, the Chinese don’t really have a “victim complex”. It’s just pure hatred. I have never once heard Chinese people ask for reparations from anyone
你是指在中国的那些外国悲情者么？这个我同意。但是，中国人没有真正意义上“受害者情结”。这只是纯粹的仇恨（谁对谁的仇恨？）。我从未听说过，哪怕一次，中国人对其他人要求赔偿。
Of course their own government and their own rulers in the successive dynasties
45 By el chino
Uh, no. It was usually a combination of bad government + bad foreigners and natural disasters. Again, holding foreign countries responsible does not mean they let the CCP off the hook. The main difference is that the CCP serves a purpose.. occasionally. That, and the CCP has to at times answer to citizens. You haven’t done a single thing for China.
不是那样，这通常是一个坏政府+坏的外国人+自然灾害的共同结果。当然，提到外国对此应负的责任并不意味着他们在替中国共产党推脱。最主要的不同是：中国共产党间或总还是为中国做了些事儿，而且中国共产党有时也不得不响应中国民众的要求；而你们却从未为中国做过一件事儿。
and made oblivious of the crimes against humanities committed by each of their own rulers against Chinese in their history
45 By el chino
Again, you’re missing the point. Almost all governments have a history of treating their own people like crap. Europe stands out in that it not only slaughtered millions upon millions of its own all through out history, they have also caused countless deaths in other countries.
您又没有理解我的意思。几乎所有的政府都有视国民如草芥的历史。欧洲更是脱颖而出，贯穿整个历史的是，它不仅仅屠杀了自己亿万的人民，还给其它国家带来了无数的死亡。
47 By Richard
Ferin, not many countries come close to China in terms of inflicting misery on its own. In terms of percentages, Cambodia comes to mind, as does Stalin’s Russia, North Korea and maybe some candidates in Africa. Don’t deny Mao’s outstanding performance in the massive distribution of starvation, torture, cerebral erasure and death
Ferin,就对自己的国家造成的痛苦来说，能和中国相比的国家不多。就百分比来说，高棉柬埔寨算一个，还有斯大林的俄罗斯，北朝鲜，也许非洲还有一些候选国家。还有别否认毛在大规模的饥饿、折磨、洗脑和死亡中的杰出表现。
48 By yourfriend
You’re forgetting Nazi Germany that killed 11% of its own population through their stupid war. By most estimates, Mao didn’t come close to achieving this.
你忘记了纳粹德国在他们愚蠢的战争了杀死了自己人口的11%。即使按最大的估计，毛也没达到这么多。
Like I said, I have never defended Mao. I’m just not letting these oh-so-pure and wonderful European countries off the hook for their disgusting barbarity
像我所说的，我从未替毛辩护过。我只是不想让这些纯洁美好的欧洲国家忘记他们那些令人作呕的残暴行为。
As for the other “advanced” nations, they were too busy slaughtering others by the millions to kill themselves. If you want to go back in to the pre-modern times as the original poster did, then there’s Japan with the non-stop civil wars, intra-European wars since time immemorial and their 4,000+ years of feudalism/slavery, etc.
对其它“先进”国家，他们太忙于屠杀数百万的其它人以至于他们顾不上屠杀自己人了。如果您是想像楼主那样回溯到现代之前的那些年代，则日本有永不休止的内战，欧洲有四千多年的封建/奴隶制度和各国之间的战争
Again, I have never once defended Mao. You are making assumptions just as el chino is. Don’t assume everyone in China approves of the CCP or Mao Zedong, I’ve yet to meet one who does. Then again, I probably hang around a different sort of crowd.
再一次重申，我从未替毛辩护。这只是你像el chino一样做的假设。不要认为每个中国人都赞成中国共产党或者毛，我还没碰到一个这样的。又一想，也许我交往的人群和您的不同。
49 By yourfriend
rather I should say “completely approves”
也许我应该说“完全赞成”
50 By Bao
And how about the genocide of the Neanderthals by the homo sapiens, 30000 years ago?
那么，30000年前智人对穴居人的种族灭绝又如何呢？
I hope you keep in mind this important event as well, and from now on I suggest that you include it in your ad nauseam rhetoric.
我希望你也考虑到这件重要的事，并且从今之后，我建议你把这个例子加入到你那些令人作呕的花言巧语中去。
Would be a shame to forget this one because it makes guilty every single human on earth.
忘记这个是很令人羞愧的，因为地球上的每个人都有罪。
51 By Richard
Ferin, I don’t put Nazi Germany in the same category as Russia orChina. NG is higher on the evil scale, but most of that 11 percent were German soldiers killed in wars outside of Germany’s borders, or Jews and gypsies Hitler considered non-German. No one’s saying Europe is so fine and perfect; I included Russia in my short list, and will include any other country in Europe that executed, starved or terrorized millions of its own. And this blog never, ever lets Nazi barbarity “off the hook,” so please think before you type
Ferin，我并不把纳粹德国与俄罗斯或者中国看成一类。NG更加罪恶，但是更重要的是那个11%是死在了德国境外的德国士兵，或者也有犹太人和吉普赛人，虽然希特勒不把他们当作德国人。没人说欧洲很完美，我的名单中包括俄罗斯，并且将包括欧洲的任何国家，只要（这个国家？）有上百万人在被处死，受饿或者生活与恐怖统治下。这个博客从未也决不替纳粹的残忍开脱，因此在你打出这些字前请三思。
But why do we keep having the same discussion with you? This has been rehashed too many times. All nations have blood on their hands. If you know this blog you know I constantly call out the crimes of the Bush administration. No favorites here, murder is murder.
但是为什么我们仍然保持和你讨论这件事？虽然它已经被老调重弹很多次了。每个民族手上都沾满了鲜血。如果你知道这个博客，你就会知道我一直在说布什政府的犯罪行为。我没任何偏向，谋杀者就是谋杀者。
Look at how you’ve highjacked and mangled the thread. The only reason Mao came up was because you made the statement that all countries are bad to its own citizens, that China is like the rest. This begged thereference to Mao - of course China under Mao is in a league by itself, with runners-up like Hitler, Pol Pot and Stalin close behind. And now you throw it back and ask why I’m bringing up Mao and putting words in your mouth. No one made any assumptions that you supported Mao, and your saying that someone did so is simply false. What I’m saying is that the example of Mao’s holocaust belies your argument of equal guilt among all nations in how they treat their citizens. Sadly, China still has a lot further to go than many other nations in this area. I can supply lots of links if you need examples
看看你是怎么强奸民意并破坏了这些帖子。毛之所以出现在话题中，只是因为你声称所有国家对自己的国民都很坏，中国和其它地方也一样。这就引出了毛，当然毛统治下的中国本身在一个联盟中，其领导者像是希特勒之类的，紧接其后的就是Pol Pot和斯大林。现在你又把这些扔回来，还问我为什么把毛也牵扯进来了，并且你没说过这些而是我强加给你的。没有任何人假设你支持毛，你说过这么做的人都是虚伪的。我所说的是，毛的大屠杀的例子把你的所有民族的罪孽是相同的观点掩饰在他们怎么对待自己的国民里了。可悲的是，比起这个地区的大多数其它民族，中国仍然更有未来。如果你要例子，我可以给你很多链接。
The US carries a large share of guilt for exporting war and destabilizing other governments and more recently for licensing torture; Germany carries the lion’s share of guilt for race-based extermination; Pol Pot for ideological extermination; and China wins a gold medal in the category of inflicting a quarter-century of non-stop misery and death on its own citizens
美国背负者很多罪恶，比如发动战争，动摇其它国家的政府，最近如合法的折磨等；德国的罪恶在种族灭绝；Pol Pot的罪恶消灭意识形态；中国则在另一方面赢得了金牌，即让自己的国民1/4个世纪中不停的遭受痛苦和死亡。
Read carefully. No one is saying you support Mao - only that your are also ppy historian and generalizer, and that every argument you make goesback to a single proposition: America is the bad one, and China is okay even if “mistakes were made,” and that if it did do something horrific,well, America did even worse. I don’t deny America’s done a lot of bad. But you constantly and reflexively react to every comment on China with the predictable, “But in America….” You are a broken record and, at least at the moment, you’re being a troll.
看仔细点，没人说你支持毛，只有你在ppy？历史并且一概而论。你所有的观点都回到同一主张：美国是坏的，中国是好的，即使犯了错误，或者是啥令人毛骨悚然的事，但总之美国更坏。我并不否认美国干了许多坏事，但是你一直本能的反对对中国的每一个评论，说“但是在美国…”你就像一个坏了的录音机，至少这会你一直在不停转圈。
52 By yourfriend
And how about the genocide of the Neanderthals by the homo sapiens, 30000 years ago?
Actually, I have brought this up when facing obnoxious, Euro-apologists. However, the Neanderthals were wiped out by European homo sapiens, not all h. sapiens. Then again, back then they weren’t really genetically European
实际上面对不愉快时，我带来了这些欧洲辩护者（？）。但是，穴居人是被欧洲智人扫地出门的不是所有智人。另外，回过头来实际上他们也不是真正起源自欧洲。
Amusing, but silly.
很有趣吧，但是很愚蠢。
All nations have blood on their hands
51 By Richard
Exactly. This is the point I keep trying to get across. But why is it that posters here try to make it seem as if the PRC is the only nation that does it? If you’re going to use 30-50 year old CCP atrocities as justification for modern arguments you’re really just begging to have someone come in and bring up European crimes against humanity. Of course it’s not conducive to discussion- you preclude that by constantly digging up Mao’s corpse as an indictment of modern China. He’s dead and done- this is something every Chinese person hears when some foreigner apologist gives his typical litany on how the developed nations have no responsibility to the rest of the world.
准确的说，我试图跨过这个观点。但是为什么这的回帖者都试图使人看起来像是只有PRC这个民族干了那些事？如果你打算用30-50年前的中国共产党干的那些残暴行为来作为你现代观点的论据，那么你就实际上牵扯了某些人进来并且也得把欧洲那些反人权的罪行暴露出来。当然，这无益于讨论，你却通过不停的挖掘毛的尸体来作为对现代中国的控告。他已经死了并且过去了。这些每个中国人都听说了，尤其是当一些外国辩护者念叨他那么典型的、冗长的关于为何发达国家对世界上其它地方没任何责任的时候
you made the statement that all countries are bad to its own citizens,that China is like the rest. This begged the reference to Mao
51 By Richard
Jesus Mother**ing Christ, the Mao era is over. Another thing I will never fathom is how the posters here constantly tell Chinese people to “get over” the Nanjing Massacre, Bombing of Shanghai, Unit 731.. etc, but they themselves (that is, the whiny foreigners) will not “get over” Mao when trying hard to make China look bad (at the expense of the people).
基督的母亲生下了（？）救世主，毛时代结束了。另一件我将永远不想知道的是，这儿的人会怎么告诉中国人去忘了南京大屠杀、上海大轰炸、731部队等等，但他们自己（这里指那些好发牢骚的外国人）决不会忘了毛，尤其是要抹黑中国的时候
What I’m saying is that the example of Mao’s holocaust belies yourargument of equal guilt among all nations in how they treat theircitizens。
51 By Richard
And once again I have mentioned that many nations, including almost all European ones, are guilty of unimaginable atrocities against their own people and/or others. This discussion is so ridiculous that I have to take death tolls as a percentage of the population and then divide it by the years to calculate the ruthless efficiency of genocide by nation.
再一次我提到了包括欧洲所有国家的许多国家都对自己的人民或者其他人有着无法想象的残暴行为。这个讨论是如此可笑以至于我不得不把死亡人数当作人口的百分比，然后按年划分，去计算国家种族灭绝的残忍效率。
Remember, it’s another poster who first made the claim that China’s governments were extraordinarily cruel and that this is quantifiable. The reason why I strongly oppose this view is because it is a consistent and erroneous bias that “Western” historians have of Chinese history. The other thing is that the way you blog on China creates a sense of hopelessness that is not conducive to real progress
记住，是另一个人挑起了这个争论，即中国政府是极其残忍的并且是可以计算的。我强烈反对这一关点的理由是，因为这是一个长久以来的错误的偏见，西方历史学家是中国历史的行家（大意）。另一方面你博客上有关中国的事创造了一副毫无希望的景象，而这对真实的过程无任何益处。
You are a broken record and, at least at the moment, you’re being a troll.
51 By Richard
My message is exceedingly clear. When you write you must be careful about how you say things. That is not counting some occasional mistakes(gini coefficients, death tolls). The reason why I bring up America is because the way some posters here carry on, you’d think that they believe America is a good example for China to look to and that all of China’s problems can be fixed by taking a Euro-American path towards industrialization and modernization; which is clearly not the case. In fact, China must be very different from America or they’ll consume the world into a wasteland
我讲的很清楚，当你回复的时候你必须对你说的十分小心。这不是计算一些偶然的错误（基尼系数、死亡人数）。我说到美国只是因为一些人说到了它，他们认为美国是中国最好的样例，所有中国的问题都可以通过欧美化的道路得到修正，并走向工业化和现代化，尽管这不是事实。实际上，中美有很大不同，他们也不会把整个世界消费成废墟。
I’m actually saving you headaches by arguing against deeply ingrained ethnocentrism so you don’t have to hear it from the likes of HX or Math, who are a joke.
我实际上通过对根深蒂固的民族优越的的深入争论，在为你治疗头疼（比喻…），因此你不必再从HX或者Math这种好笑的人那打听这些。
53 By Richard
Thanks Ferin, I’m eternally grateful. Now, about what MacKinnon says about CNN and other media….
谢谢Ferin，感激不尽。现在，看看MacKinnon所说的有关CNN的事以及其它媒体…
54 By Paultard
Mao was probably most evil emperor in Chinese history and he did manyterrible things in culture rev. But do you think its fair to say he murdered 25-35mils of Chinese during the three-years-famine?
毛可能是中国历史上最邪恶的君主，他在文化大革命中干了许多可怕的事。但是你认为说他在3年饥荒中谋杀了2.5-3.5千万中国人公平么？
QUESTION: Mr L, you talked about how the Communists did a better jobthan anyone else could have in ruling China after they came to power,but they also killed enormous numbers of their own people. Do you haveany sense of how many people the Chinese government killed under Mao’srule and, if you do not have a sense for the number, do you think itwas more or less, say, than Hitler?
Well, we are talking about two countries with a great difference inpopulation, you know, so you would have to say, like, you would have topro-rate it, but to me that is not the only significant thing; there isa qualitative difference."
Hitler believed in the rule — world domination by a master race. Maodid not believe in any sort of master race or master country. Once, in1964, when he received delegations from 16 African countries who werestill fighting for independence — so most of them were from guerrillagroups — he had me come to this meeting and I had no idea why, since ithad to do with Africa, and I found out after I got there the reason hewanted me there was, he wanted to make the point to them that a racistapproach was wrong.
How many people died? Well, the most striking figure I know of is that,in the famine that followed the Great Leap Forward in 1958/59, anestimated between 25 and 35 million people in the countryside starved,partly because of natural disasters, mostly man-made, because of wrongpolicy. And I think the real crime in Mao’s behavior was, not that hewanted people to die, not at all, but the fact that he thought that hehad the right to perform these huge social experiments involvinghundreds of millions of people when he, himself, did not know what theresult was going to be, but he was trying to find a way for China todevelop and to grow prosperous faster. He wanted to do that; he wantedto show the world; so a different kind of thing.
I remember a friend of mine who was an American writer, in 1958 arrivedin Beijing, saw the Great Leap Forward, all the false reports onphenomenal increases in production and so on and immediately wanted towrite a book about it. And Mao told her, “Don’t do it. Wait five years,because we still don’t know what the outcome of this Great Leapbusiness is going to be”. So he knew that he did not know and still hethought that he had the right to go ahead and do it; socialexperimentation. Very different sort of mentality from Hitler orGoebbels.
55 By cina
I am sure you are from mainland China because I am.
我很肯定你来自大陆，因为我也是。
Your mind still stays in the period of WWII in which power can rule theworld. I don’t think China has any chance to develop the same power as Soviet Union did. But the democratic countries had never surrendered to that autocracy like Chinese succumb to their own dictator.
你的思想仍然停留在二战，认为凭力量就能统治整个世界。我不认为中国有任何机会能发展成前苏联那样的实力，但是民主国家绝不会向独裁政府屈服，决不会像中国人自己向他们的独裁者屈服那样。
Don’t have those stupid dreams, hehe
别再做那些愚蠢的梦了，呵呵
56 By cina
Yu’s article is crap. President Hu uses it for his power struggle. Actually, Hu did the exact opposite to what the article said.
Yu的文章是废话。胡主席用他来服务于他得权力，实际上胡做的和文章说的完全相反。
57 By HongXing
Why this anchor called Lou Dobbs of CNN, when mentioning China on hisnews program, he adds the word “Red” in front? Every single instance.Any reason?
为什么这个主持人叫Lou Dobbs of CNN？（没明白…）当他在新闻中提及中国的时候，他在前面加“红色“这个词了么？举个例子如何。还有其它疑问么？
Name me any anchor in CCTV that adds “imperialist” or any similar descriptors when mentioning the US?
能给我个CCTV主持人的名字，在他提到美国的时候加了帝国主义或者相似的词么
58 By Bao
“Why this anchor called Lou Dobbs of CNN, when mentioning China on his news program, he adds the word “Red” in front? Every single instance. Any reason?”
57 By HongXing
Because we all hate China HX, especially the people like me, part of the Agency (CIA), I hope you will excuse us, we were brainwashed when we were young…
因为我们**HX，尤其是像我这种属于CIA的人，我希望你能原谅我们，我们很小时就被洗脑了…
We are working very hard everyday to destroy China, I hope you understand at least our goal.
我们每天很努力地去破坏中国，我希望你至少明白我们的目标。
China should die!
中国应该去死！
And crumble upon a ton of printed papers, printed by CNN of course.
一吨已印好的、碎了的纸上，当然印着CNN的字样（没明白….）
Mouhahahahahahaha! (evil laugh)…
Mouhahahahahahaha!（邪恶的笑声）。。。。
January 14, 2009 @ 3:08 am | Comment
59 By cina1
Chinese is wired. They are ashamed of being called Red even thought heir own flag is made of red and their rulers claim that they are communist party and struggle to realize communism.
中国人生活在铁丝网之中。 尽管中国的国旗是红色的，而且中国的统治者声称他们是共产党，在为实现共产主义而奋斗，但是中国人却为被称为红色而感到羞耻。（由redflag修改）
Actually, in their mind, they already admit that communist is evil. But they want to cooperate with dictators to fool themselves.
实际上，在他们的思想里，他们实际上已经承认共产主义是魔鬼。但是他们要与独裁者合作好愚弄自己。
60 By cina
No American will call the US imperialist. Chinese tend to call the USby that name especially for those worshiping Chairman Mao a lot. Even in their own official politics and history textbooks which are pure propaganda crap, they use imperialist for the US during Chairman Mao’sruling. Now they use ‘hegemonism’ to describe the US’s role in the world. They describe the US as a terrible country hated by almost any other countries in the world except some countries like Japan which they say they are just puppet government of the US.
美国人不会称呼美国为帝国主义。中国人可能这样称呼，尤其是那些崇拜毛的人。甚至在他们那些充满废话、纯粹宣传的官方政治和历史课本中，也只在毛主席统治时期才用帝国主义称呼美国。现在他们用霸权主义来描述美国在世界中的角色。他们把美国描述成一个被除了像日本之外，世界上所有国家都讨厌的恐怖国家，至于日本，他们说它是美国的傀儡政府。
What a joke
真是好笑
61 By bert
Going from “silly questions” to “lynching”? haha
话题从“愚蠢的问题”换到了“私刑”？
62 By yourfriend
Actually, in their mind, they already admit that communist is evil. Butthey want to cooperate with dictators to fool themselves.
实际上，在他们的思想里，他们实际上已经承认共产主义是魔鬼。但是他们要与独裁者合作好愚弄自己。（这应该是引用前面cina的话）
You’re an idiot. Just shut up already.
你是个白痴，闭上你的嘴。
No American will call the US imperialist. Chinese tend to call the USby that name especially for those worshiping Chairman Mao a lot. Evenin their own official politics and history textbooks which are purepropaganda crap, they use imperialist for the US during Chairman Mao’sruling. Now they use ‘hegemonism’ to describe the US’s role in theworld. They describe the US as a terrible country hated by almost anyother countries in the world except some countries like Japan whichthey say they are just puppet government of the US.
60 By cina
It’s really not far from the truth. Imperialism = Iraq and annihilation of Native Americans. The only country with a majority pro-America are Japan and Korea.
事实上，美国离真正的帝国主义也不远，比如伊拉克的事以及对美洲本地土著的灭绝行为。只有日本和韩国的大多数人亲美。
63 By cina
Please keep fooling yourself
请停止愚弄你自己。
64 By Bao
Nobody is taking him seriously anyway, do not worry about him Cina. But do not muzzle him.. yet… it’s fun to watch and read
没有人对他认真过，不要太在意Cina。但是也别让他不说话，看他的表现也是一种娱乐。
The funny thing about you cina, is that you sound genuine. I had doubts at the beginning, but the way you express yourself and the ideas you bring, are just too familiar.
Cina，你最有趣的是，你听上去很诚恳的样子。我从一开始就怀疑了，但是你表述你自己的方式和你的想法是如此的熟悉。
Very happy to finally have somebody from the mainland speaks his mind out. Refreshing I would say.
非常高兴最后还有来自大陆的人说出他的想法，这是让人高兴。
65 By
Message to yourfriend: You are a minority
给yourfriend：你是一个少数派。
Should I repeat it again?
我是否该再次重复它？
66 By Bao
“I opened my first blog by chance. At that time, I didn’t even know how to type with computer… Yang Jia’s mother Wang Jingmei, a very honest person, she tried to open a blog, but was forced to close down… You can see that blog is a very great invention. Words written can become a threat that stirs up so much anxiety. Blog is the most powerful weapon in one’s life. Blog is the best thing given to human being. This is a loose form of civil society before we have genuine democracy and more organized civil society. It will lead us to a great new world. I respect all those who insist to blog.”
“我偶然开了我的第一个博客，那时，我甚至不知道怎样用电脑打字…Yang Jia的母亲Wang Jingmei 是一个很正直的人，她试图开一个博客，但是被迫关闭了…你知道博客是一个非常伟大的发明。写下来的文字能成为威胁，煽动起许多焦虑的情绪（估计是说对政府是威胁）。博客是一个人的人生中最重要的武器。博客是人类最好的东西。在我们拥有真正的民主和更有组织的公民社会之前，这就是公民社会自由的形式。它将引导我们去一个新世界。我尊重那些坚持写博客的人。”
Good luck yourfriend, in 2009.
Yourfriend 祝你2009好运求真务实
67 By Imitation Crabmeat
By the way. About our net friend “Cina”, here is a collection of his quotes:
顺便说一句，有关我们的网友“cina”，下面是他的言论集：
The normal Chinese people are just slaves of those dictators. They don’t have their own thoughts
普通的中国人都是独裁者的奴隶，他们自己没有思想.
There is no culture enlightenment in China, most Chinese are just peasants.
那儿没有任何文明之光，中国人都是乡下人。
The best strategy is to use one group of Chinese to fight against another.
最好的战略是让一些中国人反对另外一些中国人。（以夷制夷啊）
And his moniker “Cina” is a vocal approximation to “Zhina” or “Shina”,which is widely considered an offensive term for Chinese people used by the Japanese during WWII.
并且他得绰号“cina”发音接近“Zhina” 或者 “Shina”，这两个词是二战期间日本人广泛用来称呼中国人的歧视语。
Now he admits he’s Chinese and lived in China, why would he deliberately pick a moniker that is offensive to the Chinese?
现在他承认他是中国人，还住在中国，为什么他还使用一个攻击中国人的绰号呢.
Richard, please look into it.
Richard，请注意下这个。
68 By cina
I am a Chinese. But I think the problem of China today is the result oftheir own deep rooted bad nature. We should not blame merely on thedictators. I use that name to remind me that Chinese should changethemselves, their ugly nature. Otherwise there is no bright futureahead.
我是一个中国人。但是我认为中国今天的问题源自他们的天然劣根性。我们不应当仅仅责备那些独裁者。我使用这个id是为了提醒我，中国人应该从自己做起，改变他们丑陋劣根性，否则他们将没有任何光明的未来。
Maybe I use some harsh words to make you feel uncomfortable. Sorry about that.
也许我一些刺耳的用词让你不舒服，对此感到抱歉
69 By Bao
Because he’s not living here anymore (as he said).
因为他再也不住在这儿了（像他说的那样）
You’d be surprised how much his thinking is actually reflecting what people think here. It’s harsh, crude, very rough and not very well elaborated, but it’s definitively echoing what many people have to say here in China. As as White (who knows about that, except yourfriend) trash foreigner, I can confirm first hand that what he’s saying is not BS.
你应该感到惊奇，到底他的想法有多少实际上反映了这儿的人的想法。这些想法是刺耳的、粗鲁的、粗略的并且描述不清楚，但是这却反应了这儿许多人的想法。像白种的垃圾外国人（除yourfriend外，谁都知道），我能第一手确认他的说法没有BS（大意…）。
And it’s not fitting in your agenda and your unified vision of China.
并且这与你议事表上和你一元化视角的中国并不一样。
Unpleasant isn’t?
对此感到不高兴？`
Boycott Oxygen! It’s allowing people to speak out and live!
联合抵制氧气吧！因为它可以使人说话并活着！
70 By yourfriend
I am a Chinese. But I think the problem of China today is the result of their own deep rooted bad nature. We should not blame merely on the dictators. I use that name to remind me that Chinese should change themselves, their ugly nature. Otherwise there is no bright future ahead.
这段是引用前面68，cina的回复
我是一个中国人。但是我认为中国今天的问题源自他们的天然劣根性。我们不应当仅仅责备那些独裁者。我使用这个id是为了提醒我，中国人应该从自己做起，改变他们丑陋劣根性，否则他们将没有任何光明的未来。
You might be descended from a long-line of classless and despicable whores and illiterate peasants, but most of us have respectablebloodlines. Don’t project your generations of failed humanity upon therest of us. If you are so depressed about your state, I would suggestthat you relieve the world of your existence.
你的祖上也许是一个低级、卑劣的**和一个没受过教育的乡下人，但是我们大多数都是有着尊贵的血统。不要把你那些失败的人性扔给我们，如果你对自己的现状（国家？）是如此的绝望，那么我建议你先拯救自己的生活（大意..）
71 By yourfriend
deleted
已删除
72 By Bao
“It comes as no surprise that your predictions 10 years before or after today were or are crap.”
这并不奇怪，无论是你10年之前的预言还是以后的，全是废话。（应该是引用yourfriend的话）
I don’t think you really want to argue with me on this point… ;)
我不认为你真想和我讨论这一点…
73 By yourfriend
Why? Because your ego will be injured in the process? Everything you’ve “predicted” about China has fallen flat.
为啥？是因为这个过程中你的自尊心会受到伤害？你所预言的有关中国的每一件事都失败了。
74 By Bao
Really ? Give me some example
真的吗？给我几个例子
75 By Bao
Like the lowered expectations about the GDP? Or is it about the unrest that could be triggered by the crisis, or is it about the Economic War scenario that is just unfolding before your own eyes?
比如GDP的增速降低？或者是即将被这种危机所引发的动荡？或者是那些没在你眼前发生的经济战争？
Or is it about the forthcoming alliance between China, south America and Russia?
或者是即将面临的中国、南美洲和俄罗斯之间的联盟？
Or is it about the fact that China is heading for a major ecological disaster very soon?
或者是有关中国不久就将成为最主要的生态破坏者这样的事实？
I’m tired, I will stop here for tonight, but I will let you pick your choice about my false predictions.
我太累了，今晚到此为止，你可以继续选择那些我错误的预言。
Have fun.
祝玩的愉快
76 By Bao
Roll back on this blog, and see when I was speaking about these things, way before everybody was even paying attention to this.
回到这个博客，看看当我讨论这些事情的时候所用的方法，每个人应该多留意下这个（大意….）
There is a reason why. I’ll let you guess why. My clown friend.
这就是为什么我让你猜为什么的原因，我的小丑朋友
77 By yourfriend
Like the lowered expectations about the GDP? Or is it about the unrestthat could be triggered by the crisis, or is it about the Economic Warscenario that is just unfolding before your own eyes?
75 By Bao
The CCP itself has predicted lower GDP growth in 2009. America is actually going to *contract*. Even more than Japan. This is even considering their growing population, and the fact that it’s the CIA and pro-American sources making these estimates. As for the growing unrest, it’s the same thing you hear every year from American masturbators. Economic war, America has been waging economic war on the entire world for decades. The only difference now is that everyone else is fighting back
中国共产党自己也预测GDP增速2009将减缓。美国事实上还会衰退。日本更惨。这甚至考虑到了他们增加的人口，并且事实是这个估计是来自CIA和那些亲美的消息资料。而局面逐渐动荡，你每年都可以从美国意淫者嘴里听到相同的话语。至于经济战争，美国已经在全世界发动了10来年了，现在唯一不同的是其他人都在反击。
Or is it about the forthcoming alliance between China, south America and Russia?
75 By Bao
You’re forgetting Africa, and the Middle East, and Central Asia, and possibly Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore and South Korea, possiblyAustralia, maybe Europe, and Southeast Asia.
你忘记了非洲、中东、中亚和可能的日本、台湾、香港、新加坡和韩国，也许还有澳大利亚，说不定还有欧洲，东南亚。
Or is it about the fact that China is heading for a major ecological disaster very soon?
75 By Bao
People said that 10 years ago, 20 years ago, etc. There are water shortages, lots of chemical pollution, desertification. Major, but not fatal. America, on the other hand, has consumed itself and other countries into wastelands.
人们10年前、20年前已经这样说了，像水资源短缺，许多化学污染，土地荒漠化但是还不致命等，另一方面，美国自己仍在大手大脚的消费，而其它国家越发贫乏。 |
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楼主: 空气稀薄
狗仔卡
发表于 2009-2-20 10:40
显身卡
